-Dave Bell, Senior Associate -Bruce Jonasson, Associate -Paul Cripwell, Rates Analyst, Revenue and Performance Indicators

Transcription

1 TC ECATS Phase II Industry Roundtable Discussion GA Statistics Collection Minutes March 1, 2007, 09:00-15:00 In attendance (alphabetically): Organization Air Transport Association of Canada (ATAC) Canadian Airports Council (CAC) Canadian Owners and Pilots Assoc (COPA) Greater Toronto Airports Authority (GTAA) International Flying Farmers LPS AVIA Consulting (LPS) Nav Canada (NAV) Recreational Aircraft Association (RAA) Transport Canada (TC) Ultralight Pilots Association (UPAC) Name -Wayne Gouveia, VP Commercial/GA -Nathan Macdonald, Manager, Research and Communication -Daniel-Robert Gooch, Dir. Communications -Kevin Psutka, President -Raymond Wirahardja, Superintendent, Statistics -Brenda Yu, Airport Statistic Analyst -Don Martin, Region 4 Director -Robert Rennert, Aviation Business Analyst -Dave Bell, Senior Associate -Bruce Jonasson, Associate -Paul Cripwell, Rates Analyst, Revenue and Performance Indicators -Gary Wolf, President -Michel Villeneuve, Chief, Aviation Statistics -Madhu Hundal, Economic Analyst, Air Stats. -Suzanne Brown, Economic Officer -Robert Bancroft, Chief, Personal Aviation -Kathy Lubitz 1. Opening Remarks Robert Rennert, Aviation Business Analyst, LPS AVIA Robert Rennert of LPS AVIA welcomed the participants and introduced the project to explore the availability of statistical data from General Aviation (GA), identify the willingness of stakeholders to participate, and to explore how such data might be gathered. 2. ECATS Development to Date Michel Villeneuve, Chief, Aviation Statistics, TC Michel Villeneuve of Transport Canada (TC) provided an overview of ECATS Phase I, and Introduced Phase II which includes expanding the program to include the collection of GA statistics. He also provided a wish list of the types of GA statistical data TC would like to collect. He emphasized the need for data to make informed decisions for various government programs like ACAP, Small Airport Viability, etc. He also talked about aviation environment issues discussed at a recent meeting in Montebello, Quebec. TC regularly provides GA analysis to different forums. A copy of his presentation is attached.

2 3. Overview of available GA data Robert Rennert Robert Rennert gave a presentation on the availability of GA statistical data, identifying the present sources and their shortcomings. He also addressed the need for superior statistics among both the aviation and general business community. A copy of his presentation is attached. He expressed a need to focus on streamlined and common process to classify and record aircraft movements, the need to make better use of technology, and the potential cost burden on operators as being important issues. Roundtable Discussion Topics The following topics were discussed: 4. GA Organizations Position on Aviation Statistics -What are the various organizations policies on statistics collection and sharing? -What concerns or restrictions do GA organizations have regarding the sharing of data? -Under what circumstances would organizations and their members be willing to share data with TC? -Do organizations collect data for regulatory compliance purposes? Marketing? Long term planning? 5. Benefits from greater data sharing -What types of statistics might organizations and their members find useful if shared among the sector? -What data do organizations and their members perceive as valuable? -Is there any information that organizations or their members could collect that would be of benefit for long-term planning? 6. Available data within the sector -What data do organizations and their members collect? -Is this data shared with anyone else? -What statistics are organizations and their members willing to keep? 7. Economical means of collecting new data -How might organizations and their members assist TC in collecting data? -How might this be carried out realistically and efficiently? -What technological means do the various organizations and their members possess to collect data? -What technological challenges do organizations envision with regards sharing statistics with TC?

3 Input and Opinions From Those in Attendance (alphabetically): Nathan Macdonald, Manager, Research and Communication, and Wayne Gouveia, VP Commercial/GA, Air Transport Association of Canada (ATAC) -Nathan explained that ATAC would like to have access to more data, particularly data that has not been overly manipulated, to be able to see more than they currently do, to be on the same page as TC. -ATAC already gathers a certain amount of data from their members, confidentially, including type of operator, domestic vs international, airline, air taxi, training, helicopter, annual income. This data is gathered on the understanding that it will not be released to anyone else. -If ATAC knew the number of hours flown by GA, where people were travelling, and wether or not people were flying for business vs. pleasure, they d get a better multiplier for GDP calculations. -Have concerns about people s willingness to provide data -Smaller operators currently face the challenge of introducing SMS. Adding another layer is going to be difficult for many. Perhaps the timing of this is not ideal. The average operator might feel that this is not the time to be trying to collect more data. Perhaps the SMS process could be expanded to capture the data requested by TC? Are there any legal issues in asking the operators for the data? -Proposed a survey of the GA community to determine who collects what data. Also need to better understand the administrative burden on the operators so it does not become too cumbersome -Feels that whatever the GA group agree on, ATAC would want to be able to share the data with the public. The data should also be aggregated -Agree with COPA position that an agreement with organizations be signed as to the use of any data collected. However don t see this necessarily as a show stopper. -Wayne pointed out that some GA segments will provide a better response than others. ATAC definitely wants access to more data and wants to be at the table. He pointed out that more needs to be done to identify the makeup and health of the GA sector. -Timeliness in distributing the data will be important Daniel-Robert Gooch, Director of Communications, Canadian Airports Council (CAC) -CAC does not gather statistics. Not sure what data members gather. They recognize that they need to collect more data at the membership level. -From the CAC s viewpoint, it would be very useful to know the difference between personal aviation that is conducted for recreational purposes, vs. that which is conducted for business purposes. -Have concerns about organization s and members willingness to provide data

4 Kevin Psutka, President, Canadian Owners and Pilots Assoc (COPA) -COPA has 18,000 members, many of whom belong to other GA orgs. 92% of his members have access to computer. -Periodically surveys his members. Uses both written, online, and telephone methods. For example a current survey underway asks what equipment they fly, how often, their age, and income. -As part of previous surveys undertaken, he compared findings with TC aviation stats. COPA members are generally in the middle of the range of the national data findings. -Lack of data prevents him from better serving his membership -Understands that regulations make the first phase of ECATS a success. But as Phase II would be a voluntary program, asks how does one motivate people to contribute data? Is there any self-motivation? Understands that TC have developed a mechanism to collect the data. Can TC not use existing platforms such as CAWIS? -COPA s primary interest lies in knowing the following information from GA in Canada: 1. Number of hours flown by GA 2. Where people are going 3. Why people are flying (business vs. pleasure) -Would like to know the size of GA s contribution to the economy. Where are the hours flown by GA being employed? What are the average distances flown? Perhaps even how much people spend on an average flight? -Kevin pointed out that while some information such as the number of litres of AVGAS pumped is known, as this is captured by STATSCAN, it can be hard to get a handle on this. -There is a legal requirement through the CARS to file the AAIR but that this is not being enforced by TC. Feels 25% of the data is missing. Furthermore it is his perception that TC is just filing the data and not doing anything with it. If this data were more complete feels more would be known about GA than is the case today. -Feels any data be collected electronically and that there be some kind of universal access point that people can log into. -Kevin understands that there are many holes in the data Nav Canada already collects on GA because many pilots simply do not elect to file a flight plan. He feels that in the future NAVCAN will see more of his members filing flight plans in order to avoid costly new requirements for ELTs. -Feels that if the sell is right to the membership TC might get good data. Slide 15 in Michel s presentation could be the sell (this slide indicates TC are interested in measuring the importance, contribution, and health of GA operators from which their needs can be better reflected and acknowledged in policy development as well as planning undertaken by stakeholders). Suggests if well packaged, and depending on what is asked to his members Kevin feels only a small percentage might refuse to report back to TC.

5 -With regards to TC sharing the data collected with other organizations, feels COPA would need some kind of an agreement with other organizations regarding the use of the data collected, but doesn t see it as a show-stopper. -Right now GA in Canada is at a disadvantage in a number of areas because there is no policy on GA and no way of knowing where the sector will be in years. This is due to a lack of accurate and detailed data. Feels GA movements are shown as continuously declining because the data is not getting reported. -Activity across a wide number of GA sectors is actually increasing. For example, ultralight activity is increasingly important. As the technology is improving, these aircraft are travelling greater distances and thus having an impact on other facilities rather than just the local ones. -TC s economic and policy goals need to be packaged together going forward with this and other programs. -Could Insurance industry, which is required to keep certain types of data, assist TC? It already has to report some of this data to the federal government anyhow. While he understands potential restrictions on its release perhaps this could be investigated further. -Regarding environmental standards that might be enforced on GA at some point in the future, even if GA knows its share of the problem is small, how can the sector be asked to contribute to the solution if it doesn t know exactly the size of its share? -How big should the carrot to GA be? Sees three pillars which the group discussed and seemed to agree on: 1. Economic- including small airport viability, overall GA health 2. Safety 3. Security Could there be others? -Going forward, asked TC if a GA data collection system could be implemented sooner than the proposed 2009 target. This is due to COPA s ongoing concerns over plans for the Pickering Airport in Toronto and plans to close down several smaller GA airports there. COPA would like to get a handle on GA activity and its economic contribution in the Toronto area. Raymond Wirahardja, Superintendent, Statistics, and Brenda Yu, Greater Toronto Airports Authority (GTAA) -The GTAA lumps all non-passenger air carrier traffic together under the broad category of General Aviation. This includes cargo flights, military and government activity. Basically all air traffic that takes place outside of the air terminal buildings is considered as GA. The numbers are small but not insignificant. -They are interested in having more GA data.

6 Don Martin, Region 4 Director, International Flying Farmers -Do not collect, do not report. -Could data be collected from pilot s Journey logs? Dave Bell, Senior Associate, LPS AVIA Consulting -Dr. Bell pointed out that when many small airports are asked to gauge their importance economically they simply do not know because the data are not collected. Paul Cripwell, Rates Analyst, Revenue and Performance Indicators Nav Canada (NAV) -Nav Canada collects 95% of itinerant movements in Canada. -Has data for flights passing through controlled, radar, northern, and oceanic airspace -Is able to collect data on itinerant activity at all towered and FSS locations- 120 facilities. They also get a raw count of local movements at these facilities. -Still more data is collected through enroute facilities, including traffic on flight plans travelling between airports where Nav Canada does not have facilities, but this data is in a raw format and would have to be mined for pertinent information. -Unless on a flight plan, traffic in uncontrolled, Class G airspace is not tracked by Nav Canada. -Future? Unless traffic has a mode C or mode S transponder, or ADS-B is expanded to most aircraft there will always be some portion of the traffic they won t have data on -Explained the FDAS system, which TC might tap into at some point in order to expand its data. FDAS assembles together information from a number of NAV Canada systems including NCAMS (Nav Canada Aircraft Movement Statistics), flight data strips, radar hits, and oceanic data. This would give TC access to far more data than the existing Nav Canada airport data collection -ATAC already breaks down the entire industry into better-defined categories, (air taxi, flight training, helicopter etc..) rather than the four used by TC for GA (commercial non-sched, private, govt, military). Could TC adopt these for the GA community? Gary Wolf, President, Recreational Aircraft Association (RAA) -RAA obtain most of their info on members from registration at annual general meetings, this includes what equipment the fly and how often. -Believes that there are roughly 3,000-4,000 non-certified aircraft in Canada and wondered how these aircraft might be captured in any data-capturing exercise.

7 -Feels more data would help RAA better serve its membership, particularly giving them an idea of what kinds of aircraft members are building. -At small aerodromes many pilots do not bother to sign the logbook/ guest register. -He has observed many pilots leaving traditional airports/ aerodromes in favour of the countryside and often a private airstrip. These are often unregistered and nothing is known about them. This is the reason for the apparent decline in GA activity- but its simply not the case. -Concerned that TC would force the GA community to report data -If the program is to be voluntary, his members might ask why TC simply doesn t take data from the annual airworthiness reports. He feels TC is going to have to make a good case for going ahead with some form of new program -Data provided would need to be shared. Operators would need to know what they are going to get back. -In terms of providing data, doesn t see too much problem in submitting data that is non-owner specific, such as hours flown and type of aircraft. He does have a problem with TC asking for things such as name, address, and aircraft identification. -Estimates 50% participation among members of his organization. Michel Villeneuve, Chief, Aviation Statistics, Transport Canada -Michel explained that for the airlines (ECATS Phase I) the resistance to supplying data was the potential cost and the intended use of the data -He pointed out that nothing is being forced on stakeholders and that the roundtable and accompanying study are for investigative purposes. TC Statistics are trying to better understand the GA universe and what it might potentially have to contribute in terms of data. They would like to know first just what data is out there that could be provided to TC. -TC is concerned that using data from the existing Journey Log might be convoluted as a process -Michel reiterated a number of times during the session that the data TC obtains for the ECATS program will NOT be used for enforcement. He understands that TC will need to deliver the ECATS message to all GA stakeholders in such a way that people are willing to contribute more openly. -Michel indicated that a participation rate of 60% and above would be useful. -TC might be able to work with Nav Canada to tap into FDAS, a large database, which could give TC access to more data than it currently has. -Interested particularly in traffic from the many airports which do not report in the NCAMS. -The biggest challenge will be to sign data sharing agreements with the various stakeholders. The actual collection and transmission of the data would not be an issue. TC have a sophisticated computer system.

8 -There is no current cost for participating in ECATS except investing a bit of time. TC is more or less covering any reasonable costs by providing the infrastructure and resources for collecting, housing and disseminating data securely. -TC are hit by a cost for data security but are trying to eliminate any cost to the industry. -This has to be a win-win program for both the GA sector and the government. TC need to present the GA stakeholders with as many benefits as possible to ensure buy-in. -TC would like to have a GA ECATS program running by 2009, which is the present funding mandate. Robert Bancroft, Chief, Personal Aviation, Transport Canada -Requirement for operators to file the AIR is in the CARS but not fully implemented. -TC see greater benefits for marketing and safety decision-making in going after the data -TC want to be clear that the data are useful for safety purposes, not for enforcement Kathy Lubitz, President, Ultralight Pilots Association (UPAC) -Data collected by her organization is voluntary, mostly from membership forms, and feels not terribly valid. Data collected consists mainly of name, license number, and number of hours flown. -Concerned about requirement to report to TC. Around 1985/86 one of their members successfully challenged privacy law. Perhaps one might look into this case. -Against providing Journey log details. As this is a legal document, concerned that this could be used against someone. -The data elements off limit are personal information. Confidentiality has to be respected. TC will need to build trust with the operators. -Flight schools already provide certain data to government. Can this be collected under an existing process? -Could TC simply take the data Nav Canada currently collects and augment it? -The various GA categories have to be defined and different incentives should be defined in order to get people to submit data -UPAC might consider a confidential survey of their members in order to collect data -Reminded TC that different GA groups have different reporting capabilities. Some of UPAC s members do not even have internet access. -She feels the upper end of the Ultralight spectrum might respond better to this initiative.

9 Other: While unable to be present at the roundtable, both Michel Villeneuve of TC and Kevin Psutka of COPA confirmed recent discussions with the Canadian Business Aircraft Association (CBAA). The CBAA desires that greater data be collected and made available and are supportive of new initiatives. CBAA have only rudimentary data on their members. However it was made clear that some of the data their members collect tends to be of a more sensitive nature due to the type of business conducted. The needs of the CBAA and their members may have to be explored in greater detail.