Camp Oven Comparison with photos (Read 1827 times) Dwayne Henson Moderator

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1 Camp Oven Comparison with photos (Read 1827 times) Camp Oven Comparison with photos Oct 11 th, 2011, 8:10am Griswold is the standard, for many, when it comes to cast iron. While Griswold had many beautiful, functional designs, they did miss the mark when it came to camp ovens. Frequently when the question is asked about camp ovens, the knee jerk reaction is; "Griswold", or, "don't buy any of that new iron, only buy buy the old stuff." For camp ovens that reply is, wrong. Here is a comparison, from the forum, for people that intend to use their camp oven for cooking outdoors, as they were (supposedly) designed for. "Now I am just talking about Camp Ovens as users. I have used; Griswold s Camp Ovens, Wagner's copy of a Griswold Camp Oven and Lodge s Camp Ovens. And I do know that a Chevy Truck Guy, is a Chevy Truck Guy, but Griswold got it all wrong when it came to Camp Ovens. When compared with Lodge s, Griswold s design was not well thought out. Legs: Length: Griswold's 1-1/8" Lodge's 1-1/2" Problem: Charcoal 1-1/8" thick Size of end of the leg where it contacts the ground: Griswold 1/8" Lodge 7/16" Leg Conclusion: The Griswold leg is too short and spindly. It's not tall enough to place coals/or charcoals underneath and still have that very important air space between coals and the bottom of the oven. The spindly Griswold leg comes almost to a point that, when full of food, sinks into the ground like a knife. This makes the air space between the oven and the coals non-existent. The Griswold Oven ends up setting and balancing on the coals/or charcoals instead of up on its legs like it should. With direct contact to the coals to the bottom of the oven, heat is uneven and the food suffers burn spots. With the spindly legs and the thin casting, the legs are more easily snapped off. I saw this happen at a Girl Scout Campout. The Griswold legs are so short they won't even fit over their own lid handles. What I mean, is the legs are too short to stack the ovens even if you wanted to. The oven just rocks high centered on the lid handle, the legs don t reach the lid. The taller thicker legs of the Lodge don't sink into the ground and they are much sturdier. Being taller, the oven isn't setting directly on top of the coals, and the food doesn't burn as easily, plus you can stack them. Lodge's legs win as a user. Castings: The Griswold is very thin, and lightly cast, the Lodge, thick and heavily cast. Thin castings are something we look for in a skillet but, are not so great for a Camp Oven. With wind and the uneven heat of coals or charcoal, the thicker the casting the more even the cooking heat. It is much easier to burn food in a Griswold than in a Lodge. When windy it takes more fuel to maintain the heat with that thinner casting. The Griswold CO heat characteristics remind me more of an aluminum CO, in that it heats up fast, cools off fast and is hard to keep at a constant temp with a wind. My Griswold #10 CO weighs 14 lbs. a Lodge #12 weighs 20, or 23 lbs depending on depth. (I went with the Lodge #12 because it is the closest in size to a Griswold #10.) The Griswold is also more fragile. Lodge is sturdier, takes less fuel, less burnt food. The heavier Lodge casting wins as a user. Lids: Griswold's lid looks pretty, but is a poor design for use. It is very thin, very light, and easily cracked, see above. That flared edge to hold the coals, HATE IT. Flaring out past the sides of the oven make it very, very, easy to bump and dislodge. A very small retaining ring on the underside of the lid is all that holds it in place. This ring is less than 5/16th of an inch in depth. After measuring mine I had to rotate it around to get it to even set correctly. This was using my hands with an empty lid. If this lid had, had any coals on it, I would have been using a lifter, and placing the lid on this oven under those circumstances is very difficult. The Lodge lid is a heavy, thick affair. The sides of the lid go straight up, even with the oven, nothing bump and dislodge. Lodge has a 1/4" X 1/4" groove "cut" into the lid, which is easy to set, and doesn't dislodge on it's own like a Griswold. You can check your food using a lifter on a Lodge and not "pepper" you food with ash, very difficult to do this maneuver with the Griswold. Lodge s lid wins as a user. Bail: What was Griswold thinking? To get the bail to go around the flared lip of the lid, they bent the bail. This design doesn't work. If the bail is moved in the slightest way it strikes the lid, the lid dislodges, (see that tiny retaining ring from the lid section, it is way too small to keep the lid on). This either peppers the food with ash, drops the coals into your food, or sends that poorly designed, but expensive lid sliding off the oven to crash on the ground, where it can shatter. You can't even carry an empty Griswold CO by the

2 bail with the lid on, without having a very high chance of the lid sliding off and breaking. Lodge's bail doesn't contact the lid, so all the above problems are avoided. Last week my daughter was carrying a Lodge #10 CO that was empty, with the lid on, and was swinging it as she walked. No problems. This would have been a disaster if she had done this with my Griswold CO, I would have been looking to buy another Griswold lid. Lodge s bail/lid system wins as a user. Now if you do have a Griswold #10 CO you can make it more user friendly. Pack that poorly designed, but valuable lid away and buy a Lodge #12 CO lid. Griswold CO's are measured at the bottom and slowly flare outwards, so a Griswold #10 is approx 10" at the bottom, but is 12" at the top. Lodge measures their CO diameter at the top. SO a Lodge #12 lid will fit on a Griswold #10 oven. With a Lodge lid the Griswold bail won't hit the lid, and with that deep groove the Lodge lid sits very securely. The next thing to do is to take a few bricks with you so you can place those spindly short legs on them. This will keep the legs from sinking into the ground. It will also keep the oven elevated above the coals instead of the oven resting directly on the hot coals, and you will have food that isn't burnt. Or if you really want to cook outdoors in a Camp Oven you can just buy a Lodge. From what I see in my BS&R CO it is a mix of Griswold and Lodge. Legs; Pretty much the same as Lodge s. Long and sturdy, Charcoal will fit underneath with enough room for a small air gap. BS&R CO's are stackable as well. Tie with Lodge Castings: Thick and heavily cast. Very sturdy, good cooker, consistent, even heat, even when windy. The oven is larger than the same size Lodge. A BS&R 10IN CO is comparable to a Lodge Deep #10 CO. Tie with Lodge, maybe slight advantage to BS&R due to size. Lid: Fair design. The newer ones have a tab with a drilled hole in the tab. Lifters will work with a tab handle, but not quite as convenient. Then we get to the Flared Rim on the lid, don't like it. Not as flared as Griswold's lids. BS&R CO's have a more pronounced flare in the oven itself, starting smaller at the bottom and gets bigger at the top. The lid follows that line so it isn't protruding, like on Griswold s, so they don't get knocked off. BS&R also uses a retaining ring under the lid to keep it in place, like Griswold. With BS&R it is a much larger retaining ring so the lid is more secure, just not as secure as Lodge's system. And like Griswold's you usually have to work that lid a little to get it to set correctly. Lodge has the advantage. Bail: Resembles Griswold's, doesn't catch the lid as bad as Griswold's. On all of the BS&R CO's I have ever had, the bail rubbed on the lid whenever the bail was moved, but usually that retaining ring design being larger than Griswold's works fairly good and prevents the lid from sliding off. Lodge has the advantage. I would rate BS&R's CO below Lodge s, but above Griswold. On the foundry pages under BS&R, look up spider skillet, it shows what I've tried to describe above. Sorry about being so long winded, but maybe now you all can see why some of us are so passionate about Lodge CO's. They're not the most collectible/valuable, but they are the best." Camp Oven Comparison Reply #1 - Dec 21 st, 2011, 7:06pm This shows the difference between Griswold and Lodge CO legs. The Griswold's are too short and come to a point that sinks into the ground when loaded with food. CO_Legs_Griswold_left_Lodge_right_001.jpg

3 Reply #2 - Dec 21 st, 2011, 7:08pm Here's a photo showing the difference in height where it matters, when cooking. A piece of charcoal will not fit under the Griswold Camp Oven with those short legs, which leads to burning. CO_Legs_Griswold_left_Lodge_right_with_charcoal_001_001.jpg Reply #3 - Dec 21 st, 2011, 7:11pm A photo showing the ineffective retaining ring that Griswold used to keep the lid on the oven. Unfortunately it does not work, and many lids and meals have been ruined because of this poor design. The lid also has that flare that "catches" whenever the bail is moved. Griswold_Lid_001.jpg Reply #4 - Dec 21 st, 2011, 7:14pm Lodge's lid. A hefty 1/4" by 1/4" groove keeps this lid in place, easy to set on the oven, even when full of coals. This lid does not slide off. Due to the straight sides on the lid, the bail does not contact the lid in anyway. Lodge_Lid_001.jpg

4 Reply #5 - Dec 21 st, 2011, 7:17pm A modification that makes a Griswold Camp Oven more user friendly. A Lodge #12 Camp Oven Lid will fit a Griswold #10 Camp Oven. As you can see the bail does not come in contact with the lid, and with that deep groove that Lodge uses, this lid is not coming off until you lift it off. Griswold_10_Oven_with_a_Lodge_12_Lid_001.jpg Reply #6 - Dec 21 st, 2011, 7:21pm Side view of a Lodge lid on a Griswold Camp Oven, it really does fit well. Gris_with_Lodge_Lid_001.jpg Reply #7 - Dec 22 nd, 2011, 8:56pm This shows the differences in the wall thickness, between the Griswold and Lodge Camp Ovens. With skillets there is a lot of talk about how thin the castings are with the old ones. In Camp Ovens, thicker castings are better for outdoor cooking over an uneven heat source.

5 Wall_Thickness_Griswold_left_Lodge_right_001.jpg Roger Barfield Forum Administrator Chuck Rogers Reply #9 - Dec 21 st, 2011, 7:25pm Nice work Dwayne. Those last photos really tell the tale. Reply #10 - Dec 21 st, 2011, 8:02pm Nice side by side comparison. Now that you mention it, the Griswold design lid, with the rounded bottom edge to the lid, and the shallow depth that it set could end in disaster for the evening meal. Or any meal for that matter. I actually have my first CO on the way to the house. That's if it survives shipping from TX. It's a 12 Lodge, and should work great. I've never used one, but I really want to try it out. I'll be checking back in here for tips and tricks to get it right. Paul Beer Camp Oven Reply #12 - Oct 11 th, 2011, 10:37am Great analysis and right on!! Sometimes you Texas guys get it right... Sam Roberts Reply #13 - Oct 11 th, 2011, 2:06pm Very well written, and true! Even if I did collect Griswold CO's I would have to agree with you on this one, for I have a few Lodge CO's and know what you're talking about. The only other brand of CO's I collect, I guess I could do a compairison but I don't have enough friends to help me carry them outside. Jerry Cermack Global Paul Beer Reply #21 - Dec 22 nd, 2011, 10:08pm In case someone wonders, I'm guilty of taking the liberty of lightening up the picture showing the Charcoal lump leg comparison. Reply #22 - Dec 22 nd, 2011, 10:20pm Much better Jerry. Thanks! Reply #23 - Dec 23 rd, 2011, 11:54am Dwayne, one more picture suggestion...inability to stack Reply #55 - Dec 26 th, 2011, 7:18pm Here is a Griswold #10 Camp Oven side view. You can see how the flare of the lid extends past the oven, making it extremely easy to accidently bump and dislodge. This also shows how the bail contacts the flare of the lid. Just moving the bail back and forth makes the lid move and dislodge. Griswold_10_CO_Side_View.jpg

6 Reply #56 - Dec 26 th, 2011, 7:20pm Here is a Griswold #10 Camp Oven teetering on its lid's handle, with one of the legs in the air. As you can see the legs are too short to stack a Griswold CO. Griswold_10_CO_Balancing_on_Lid_Handle.jpg Reply #57 - Dec 26 th, 2011, 7:24pm BS&R #10 Camp Oven side view. With the BS&R the lid flares like the Griswold, but follows the line of the oven. This lid doesn't get bumped off accidently. Due to that flared lid, the bail does rub on the lid whenever it is moved, but having a larger retaining ring doesn't dislodge as easily as a Griswold. BSR_10_CO_Side_View.jpg Reply #58 - Dec 26 th, 2011, 7:25pm Lodge #10 CO side view. The lid lip goes straight up and due to this design the bail can not touch the lid. This lid design does not dislodge accidently when the bail is moved.

7 Lodge_10_CO_Side_View.jpg Reply #59 - Dec 26 th, 2011, 7:28pm A Lodge #10 CO "stacked" on a BS&R #10 CO. See the room under there? Plenty of space for coals, and yet not touch the bottom of the oven above it. Those long legs make all the difference. Unfortunately for Griswold, size does matter when it comes to legs on a Camp Oven. Lodge_10_CO_Stacked_on_Top_of_a_BSR_10_CO.jpg Paul Beer Reply #63 - Dec 27 th, 2011, 12:31pm While we are kicking around the camp cooking stuff I wanted to mention the use of the camp oven lids on regular pans. Many times the various lids will fit larger pans. The reason is that you can use them to heat from above like a broiler to finish off dishes. My most favorite is Lodges new 17 inch skillet on which a 16 lid works great. I make a big egg dish with cheese,chiles,etc. topped off with cheese and broiled with the lid to melt it all down. The pans are better for the broiling as there is less air space to heat up. You can do the same of course with the oven, just takes a little more heat and time. As I like to say what ever you can do in the kitchen we can usually do with the ovens. Roger Barfield Forum Administrator Paul Beer Reply #65 - Dec 27 th, 2011, 12:41pm Thanks Paul, I didn't know the #16 lid would fit on that 17 inch skillet. I'll have to give that a try. You know the lid for the #14 will also fit the Lodge wok. I have used it that way before. Reply #66 - Dec 27 th, 2011, 1:14pm Always proud to help you Texas guys down the trail..lol

8 Reply #71 - Mar 11 th, 2012, 3:11pm Going through some older posts and found the following photo. Wagner obviously knew that they had a problem/complaints with the bail "knocking the lid off of their CO's. This lid has "tabs" added to the retaining ring, IMO to help keep the lid on. Wagner_CO_Lid_Bottom_View_with_Tabs-Jeff_Padens.jpg Reply #72 - Apr 2 nd, 2012, 11:09pm Thanks to George Gardner 10_CO_Cover_Bottom_Tabs.jpg Nick Niacaris Reply #73 - Nov 10 th, 2012, 11:39am how do the Wagner DO's compare, are they designed better than the griswold? Reply #74 - Nov 10 th, 2012, 12:04pm Wagner did make some Camp ovens early on, and I have not tested them. They have just "WAGNER" on them. They weren't made very long, are rare, you don't see them come up for sale, and when they do command a high price. I'm not sure I would use one if I had it. The Wagner's that usually come up are exactly like Griswold's, Wagner started casting Camp Ovens again after the company that owned them bought Griswold. So Wagner took Griswold's patterns modified the markings on the bottom and cast them. So the designs are identical. Later Wagner did add little tabs on the underside of the lid to try to keep it from sliding off so easily. So the review for Griswold's Camp Ovens would be the same for the Wagner ones. Any Griswold/Wagner CO can be pretty pricey and being so thinly cast, can break easily. If you are interested in Camp Oven cooking I would reccommend getting a Lodge and using it. I have a Griswold CO and it sits all wrapped up in a closet, just a little to fragile, and valuable to take a chance with to use it cooking.