Queen Charlotte Islands Forest Roads Meeting December 1 st, 2005 Call to Order: 9:05am (Brian Eccles) Welcome and Background leading to the meeting: (Len Munt) Have a wide range of people here with an interest in having good, well-identified roads on QCI. As a group need to prioritize road maintenance on the Island. Idea for meeting was initiated with the closure of Rennell Sound roads last winter (due to slide). Introduction of Participants 1. Ron Tanner, Engineer Technician (BCTS) 2. Dale Lore, Village of Port Clements 3. Travis Glasmen, Haida Heritage & Forest Guardians 4. Jaques Morin, QCI Citizen 5. Brad Dearden, Pallent HfP/FOC 6. Dale Morgin, Teal Jones 7. Phil Shields, Small Business 8. Cory Delves, Cascadia FP 9. Bill Waugh, Island Timberlands 10. Jim Henry, Morseby Island Management Committee 11. Dave Younger, private land interest 12. Len Munt, MoF 13. Mark Nering, Epcor Power 14. Michael Muller, GIAPC 15. Duncan White, Representing runners, hikers etc. 16. Andrew Merilees, HG Tourism Assoc. 17. Denis Madson, GH National Park Reserve 18. Bob Issacs, RCMP (Masset) 19. Neil Hog, RCMP (QCC) 20. Carol Kulesha, QCC Mayor 21. Tim Panko, Habitat Protection Officer 22. Terry Sullivan, BCTS 23., MoF (Nanimo) 24. Brian Eccles, MoF Enginerring Officer QC. 25. Jean Traplin, Chamber of Commerce 26. Jody Bissett, Minutes Regional overview of current legislation with focus on Wilderness Road designation Following 2002 co-review, Ministry of Forests (MoF) formulated primary objectives. Maintaining roads for public use is not a core value. Budget for maintaining roads was approximately halved (51% budget cut, 48% staff cut). Minister taking steps to transfer responsibility of roads for non-industry use to Ministry of Transportation (MoT).
If maintenance is transferred to MoT, liability and fee responsibilities also are transferred over. Carol Kulesha What standards must be met to have a road transferred to MoT as a community level road? What if a town s water supply is down a logging road? The Honna Road is essential for the drinking water for the community; our secondary source of water is Stanley Lake. People must be able to drive up there. : If a town has a post office, a full time populace and is located on a road that was built for logging purposes, this road will be transferred and become MoT s responsibility. Community level roads require surface, brushing etc. to make the road safe for cars. I have not encountered a situation where a town s drinking water is located down a logging road. Dale Lore A small lodge will not be able to afford to maintain a road, especially bridges, to the level the Government will require them too. They will go out of business. Here a road may be very important but it will not see the numbers that are seen on roads in southern B.C. We are aiming for a new level of maintenance so that if an activity is defined as a high value recreational activity funding could be made available. We need to identify which roads are most important to local businesses and citizens here on QCI. Ministry of Tourism/Sports will be identifying which areas are of high recreation usage. Cory Dales Have you identified any roads on the Island to be transferred to MoT? We have not identified any roads to be transferred to MoT on Queen Charlotte. Cory Delves How do you deal with the road leading to Rennell Sound? There are multiple owners along its length. This meeting is a starting point where we talk about these issues. We need to find a way to maintain that road, as it is very important to the Island Community. We may have to turn a small section of the road into a Forest Service Road so it is maintained. Bill Waugh How much funding is available here on Island? $22,000 a year to maintain roads on the Island, funding may increase next year. We need to do the best we can with the funds available. The opportunity exists to apply for extra, emergency funding (e.g. the Rennell Sound slide last winter). Duncan White
Could this emergency fund be used to fix bridges, road sections etc. after the responsibility transfer? NO once responsibility is transferred, liability will be transferred as well. Duncan White If the mandate does not work on the Island are you willing to take that back to Region and find something that does work up here? Yes. Jim Henry I think that during the transfer to MoT, MoF should have some responsibility. This has been recognized, the Minister will enter a 1-5 year transfer period where MoF will be responsible for these roads and money will be made available. Dave Younger What would happen on Wilderness Roads if a volunteer group wants to improve the roads but doesn t want to take responsibility? Potential liability would still lie with MoF, so any activity that comes from community is fine. If volunteer group wanted to work on roads, they should become involved with MoF, so they can oversee and make sure forest environment is not being negatively impacted. If Wilderness Road has become closed then there may be some issues (i.e. if a bridge has come to the end of its service life the community should not keep the bridge and maintain it). It is possible that the road be turned to a trail. District leads group discussion on primary access roads and destinations. Groups to identify specific interest routes, timelines Brian Eccles (PowerPoint presentation) Cascadia/Western has bulk of roads, followed by Husby, JS Jones, BCTS, private, MoF Operations (up Sleeping Beauty, final section of Rennell Sound) and wood lot operations. This presentation, or a summary of it, will be available for all. Everyone at meeting must outline on the three maps on the wall what sections of road are important to them. Challenges are: routine maintenance to keep minimum standards (alder encroachment issues), upgrades and repairs, deactivation and wilderness standard roads (where we have most controversy). Issues associated with ditching and structure failure (30,40,50 years old), must prioritize the roads we want to work on. If there are major safety or environmental concerns, we can apply for extra funding. Road deactivations and closures: roads that were historically for logging (i.e. Peel Rd), but were left to nature became overgrown and become a liability. If a stream has occupied the old roadbed it is not environmentally sound to move through the area with vehicles; it would cost more environmentally to go in and put the road to bed; best to allow it to deactivate naturally. Jim Henry
How did Sleeping Beauty road get FSR status? What is the regime and criteria to become a FSR? ACTION item what criterion makes a Forest Service Road? Duncan White Can BCTS be nudged into getting timber at the end of roads that the public wants to access? Terry Sullivan Relates to the long term, it many not fall into the long-term mandate of BCTS. Len Munt Lets make that an ACTION item: look into the possibility of BCTS developing timber sales at the end of roads public may wish to access. Bill Waugh Issue with regards to Rennell Sound road maintenance arose with Cascadia after the separating of the two companies. Now have an understanding with Cascadia. Have addressed the grading issue, employed a trapper to address beaver issues, minor culvert repairs will be taken care of. Big concern is if we have major failure. Down south we have gated roads that we charge people for access to, money goes to road maintenance we don t want to do that up here, access would only be restricted if environmental or safety issued occurred. Brad Dearden With regards to Moresby, Kelly and Field Roads we have worked in a partnership with MoF (i.e. brushing, filling of potholes, work with a small backhoe). MoF has offered materials for filling potholes and a small amount of funding. Concerns are long-term aspects towards that partnership. I would like to see continued branching of partnerships, all chipping in (labor, machinery etc). Peel Inlet road closure should be looked at as a community issue. There is a lot of interest in that area. What can we do to gain access to that area but not be risking our lives or the environment (i.e. Coho juveniles in the creek)? Action: Form a Sandspit group to look at Peel Inlet road look at viability of reopening. Action: Develop greater level of partnerships for Moresby Camp Road. Who s mandated to keep the hydro line? Mark Nering Typically we helicopter crews in if work needs to be done, but at some point we may need road access. Len Munt Hydro would be a good person to join in with the strategic partnerships. Phil Shields (Representing Chamber of Commerce) What happens to the loop roads during the non-logging season? Who is responsible for upkeep? It is an industrial road used by many different users. Terry Sullivan If there are many users they should be contributing money to the forestry company to be used for upkeep. If a lot of the users for tourism purposes that the Ministry of Tourism/Sports should be paying. Dale Morgan Government agencies, such as DFO and MoF, use it very rarely and small time users will not enter into an agreement. As a licensee we cannot maintain road year road (other than significant issues which may arise).
Len Munt We need to determine the actual cost of maintaining the road, then see what portion of the costs would go to each partnership. Jim Henry Rennell Sound Road is very similar to the Moresby Rd. Both have a whole host of users. If we form a user group for Moresby Road I feel we should do the same for Rennell Sound Rd. Dennis Madson Regarding Moresby Road - Parks Canada use of that road is actually quite small, however Moresby Camp is the spot where people accesses any areas to the south. We would be prepared to be part of the solution to this problem. Jaques Morin Yakoun Lake (YL) is an important spot for people on these islands. Queen Charlotte City and Port Clements would like to see the YL road permanently reactivated. As a Wildlife Biologist, we need access to these roads to monitor species at risk (i.e. Northern Goshawk). Using a helicopter would be too expensive; monitoring projects would not be able to continue. Andrew Merilees The routes being talking about (Loop, Port Clements Main, Rennell Sound, Grey Bay) are very important for economic development on the tourism front. Any limited access to these main roads will severely impact tourism. Cory Delves I think someone needs to put together a generic do s and don ts for touristtravelers partaking in remote road traveling. Dale Lore No one has brought up the issues of forest fires. With roads being deactivated we will lose access to many areas. Also less access for deer hunting. Due to our vulnerable highway we need the back road from QCC to Port Clements up kept as a safety issue. Michael Muller I think we should put the main roads onto MoT s responsibility. Have you approached MoT? that needs to be done. Travis Glasman I think all the roads are necessary here. The land use plan is assuming that all these roads will be in place. It is not serving the local interest not to maintain as many roads as environmentally possibly. We need to make a business plan, what business the road will be serving, benefits to community etc. Make a professional presentation to MoT. We need to focus on 4 or 5 specific roads, have a consensus on what they are going to cost to maintain so we can present the package. Carol Kulesha It would be a good idea to make a list of Pros and Cons of different options. Brad Dearden We can avoid road closure in the future by having group partnerships that are willing to keep roads maintained, but we do need MoT to provide some funding.
It is a new phase, Industry use to be able to keep roads, but with less harvesting are not able to maintain road. The key to remember is that it is not a public road it is an industrial road. This Island is unique in that you will have roads that are used equally by industry and private users. Len Munt Brian Eccles & I will find the best way to put this information together in a more structured package; we may be able to hire someone to focus on putting this information together. We would need everyone here to cooperate with this individual. Action Items ACTION: Brian Eccles will provide his PowerPoint presentation or a summary of it for anyone who wants it. (Requested by Duncan White). ACTION: to provide regional pamphlet of traveling back roads do s and don ts ACTION: Determine What criteria make an FSR road? (Asked by Jim Henry). ACTION: Look into the possibility of having BCTS develop timber sales at the end of roads public may wish to access. ACTION: Form a group to look at the viability of reopening the Peel Inlet road. ACTION: Develop greater level of partnerships for Moresby Camp Road and Rennell Sound Road. ACTION: Develop a strategic plan dealing with the maintenance of that road, need to see what the actual cost of maintaining the road is, so we can see what portion of the costs would go to each partnership. Present a business plan. ACTION Develop a list of pros and cons for the various options when transferring responsibilities of roads. ACTION Len Munt & Brian Eccles will find the best way to put this information together in a more structured package. Possibly hiring someone to develop a strategic business plan to present to MoT. ACTION Brian to get in touch with Ministry of Transportation. ACTION Len to get in touch with Ministry of Tourism/Recreation.