Supervisor McCoy called the public informational meeting to order at 7:05 p.m.

Transcription

1 Minutes of the Town of Lake George Informational Snow Mobile Trails & Ellsworth Road Meeting held on, at the Town Center, 20 Old Post Road, Lake George, New York Members Present: Also Present: Frank McCoy, Supervisor Vinnie Crocitto, Councilperson Fran Heinrich, Councilperson Caryl Clark, Councilperson Scott Wood, Councilperson Deborah Foley, Town Clerk Jim Grey, Tony Hall, Uncle Tony, Bob Barrett, Therese Olsen, Debra Johnson, Skip Stranahan, Mike Riley, Joanne Duffy, Kevin Duffy, Barb Bianco, Ray Wilson, Wayne Pete West, Beth Crane, Paul Butler, Supervisor Gene Merlino, Doug Brownell, Paul Ryan, Joe Conway, Dave Michaels, Tom Wessling, Dave Rosek, Nick Schremmer, Hal Raven, Robby Bolton, Jim Vallastre, Duane Gillingham, Mike Fazio, Joe Mastrodomenico, Gregg Dunn, Lenny, Linda Duffy, Mike Consuelo, Mark McClain, Brad Chambers and many others. Supervisor McCoy called the public informational meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. Supervisor McCoy stated that the reason for tonight s meeting is to try to decide what to do with Ellsworth Road. The Board is trying to find what the sentiment is among the citizens and if any one can offer any other suggestions otherwise a decision will have to be made on whether to continue snowmobiling on Ellsworth Road or to close it due to the excessive nuisance to the neighbors. He asks for the public to keep the comments brief since there are a lot of people. He asks the citizens to come up to the podium, state their name and address and whether they are in favor or against it and a brief explanation or a quick insight on to how they feel about it. Bob Barrett: He lives at 127 Ellsworth Road and he has lived at this address since He is against it for many reasons, one of them being the noise; the road narrows which is a safety issue and there has to be constant snow removal because of poor driving conditions. One personal reason is the fact that his daughter is dropped off by the school bus and has to walk the length of the road to get home. She has to dodge the snowmobiles, listen to some comments, etc., there should be other ways to do this. Theresa Olsen: She lives at 79 Ellsworth Road. She is not sure if she is for or against it. They own a snowmobile but there has to be another way. They live directly across the snowmobile path and it is very noisy; she agrees with the snow problem which makes it hard for them to get into their driveway since the snow collects at the bottom of the driveway from the traffic of the snowmobiles. They like the fact that there is access to other snowmobile trails but it needs to be somewhere else. The noise is all day long from 7:00 a.m. till all hours of the night and they don t slow down; they fly by their house. Debra Johnson: She lives at 67 Ellsworth Road. She is against it because of concerns for the safety of the snowmobilers. It is very hard for the groomers to come up the road, they have to cross two major highways and it is difficult to get out of the road because of the blind spot. She has nothing 1

2 against the snowmobilers, she likes the fact that it brings tourists to the area but it should be put on the bike trail. She recommends that someone looks into it. Crossing Route 9 is a safety issue and there has to be a better way. Skip Stranahan: He lives on Bay Road. He lives within 100 feet of the trail and the snowmobiles cross his front yard and has had no problems at all. He has had as many as 200 sleds a day come through. He believes that if Ellsworth Road cannot be used than the Board needs to find an alternate route because it is very beneficial to the County and the businesses in this area and we need it. Mike Riley: He lives at 87 Ellsworth Road. He is definitely for a trail joining Warren and Washington County because he is pro business. It has been a quiet road for many years and if he had no choice at all he would find a way to deal with it. However, he feels that if the right amount of effort is put into this, other ways to reach this goal can be found. He drives snowmobiles and he did not have as much of a problem but his house is set way back from the road. He understands his neighbor s plight but he does not have a child walking on the road and 90% of the snowmobilers drove at a decent speed and were friendly. He could put up with it for another year while other alternatives are being pursued but he would like to see Ellsworth Road go back to the nice quiet street it is. Uncle Tony: He lives on the Wild West property about 100 feet from the snowmobilers. He found them to be courteous and not rowdy. He understands how the citizens on Ellsworth Road feel but he also believes that other alternatives should be pursued since it is good for business. He feels that a good solution can be found to benefit both groups. Mike???: He does not like public speaking but he is for it. He does not understand how one neighbor s point of view can be so different from another. Considering today s economy, he believes that everyone should try to be neighborly and bend a little bit including the government. Joanne Duffy: She lives at 48 Ellsworth Road. Their house is set back from the road so the noise did not bother them a lot. They own a snowmobile and are for the snowmobile trail however she does not disagree with her neighbors because this road is a noise challenged road to begin with. She agrees with Mike Riley s comment and could tolerate it for another year since it is a great sport and most snowmobilers are great people however, she would like to see some controls set up such as closing the trail at 9:00 p.m. and opening it up at 9:00 a.m. by putting up a snow fence. She understands it is hard but it is possible and maybe it can proceed this way. Barbara Bianco: She lives in Diamond Point. Her husband is a volunteer groomer and loves the new trail and has talked to the business people and was told that it has done wonders for them. It should not be closed and is wondering why the bike trail is not utilized. It is the perfect solution for the groomer, safety, etc. Prior to moving here they lived in Vermont. The Vermont trails traversed their property and they were also snowmobile owners and never had a problem with any of them. 95% of snowmobilers are wonderful people and are just trying to have a good time and it should not be taken away economically or socially from the area. Ray Wilson: 2

3 He owns the Nassau Motel which is where the snowmobiles cross Route 9 and use his front yard to cross. He is for and against it. The problem he has is with the snow. Plowing on Ellsworth Road is terrible and when the groomer comes down, he has to clean the snow up although he does not have a problem with it since it can be handled. This is good for business and he has had no problems with the snowmobilers. Next year he plans on advertising since guests they can leave from his motel with the snowmobiles. He has had no complaints not even from the police when they stopped them in his front yard to check for speed. It is, however, terrible watching the kids walk down the street with the snowmobiles coming down the road. He believes that the bike path is the best alternative and it is a simple solution as well. Wayne Pete West: He lives at 96 Ellsworth Road which is the first house a snowmobile passes. He believes it is a wonderful thing to have a Washington Warren County trail and can understand his neighbors concerns. His biggest concern is safety especially when it comes to crossing Route 9. He believes that snowmobilers are wonderful people and has gone out of his way to help them. He is aware of the noise problem but they also get noise from the Northway. This is a positive thing and there has to be an easier way to approach it. Beth Crane: She lives at 1858 Route 9. She owns a small diner and has benefitted from the snowmobilers this past winter. She had a good breakfast business and all the snowmobilers were happy to be able to access either county. It would be great to keep it going but look for another alternative such as the bike trail since it is creating problems on Ellsworth Road. Paul Butler: He is from Warren County Parks and Recreation. Supervisor McCoy asked him to attend the meeting to address any questions the attendees may have. He is not for or against it, he is there as a resource in the event anyone has any questions regarding the bike path. Last year he and Mike Fazio, with the South Warren Snow Mobile Club, did some research on the potential use of the bike way. Warren County does not own the entire bike way from Bloody Pond down to the lake; DOT owns the property from Bloody Pond North (355 feet north). Another issue may be a possible easement. Warren County crosses a Mrs. Eastwood s driveway in this section or she crosses the bikeway; after extensive research and talking to the County s Attorney, he could not find anything in the 1978 era. There are some issues with the bikeway and Mike understands that Warren County needs to approach DOT first and then Mrs. Eastwood. He does not know of any other issues although some more may be possible. He adds that after the 355 feet the County owns the property with the embankment owned by Mr. Gillette who might own a sliver of the blacktop as well. Supervisor McCoy: He comments that he was working on the possibility of using the bike trail. Someone from the audience asks if it would help this project to get in touch with Senator Betty Little, Supervisor McCoy replies that it would not hurt. Supervisor Gene Merlino: The big factor is that for January, February and March of this year, the sales tax revenue was up approximately $600,000 however he also feels for the citizens living on this road. He believes that by working together a solution can be found. 3

4 Doug Brownell: He is from Easton in Washington County. He is very grateful for this trail because the businesses in Washington County have seen a tremendous increase in sales this winter. He is a snowmobiler and president of his club and is very respectful of others. Supervisor McCoy asks how much snowmobilers spend on an average when they come through. Mr. Brownell replies that usually on a weekend it would be the cost of gas and meals. Paul Ryan: He is from Pilot Knob. He believes that a tremendous demand was tapped, the citizens on Ellsworth Road were not prepared for the volume of snowmobilers coming through; the County did not expect $600,000 in revenues and so now it is evident that this area has something that can work well for the community and he believes that is should be pursued either through other avenues or through eminent domain with low impact to the community. Joe Conway: He is from Pilot Knob. It is obvious that there is a vision with a couple of communities coming together in the snowmobile industry from both directions. However he believes that there is no price on safety and the issue with the gentleman s daughter walking home from the bus needs to be addressed. The technicality of joining these two systems together can be dealt with pursuing different option but safety and the fact that Lake George advertises snowmobiling cannot be dismissed. He is for it and believes there is a way to get this accomplished with commitment from both the Board and the snowmobile committees. Dave Michaels: He is from Pilot Knob Rd. He is an active snowmobiler and believes that the bike trail is the number one avenue to be pursued and he hopes that the town is in full support of it. He states that the bike trail is already being used from 9N to the lake and there is no impact using it from Bloody Pond Rd. He does understand the residents position having snowmobiles going seven days a week at all hours. He is all for it and it is badly needed by the businesses as well since times are tough. He heard that snowmobilers from Vermont will use the trail which means they stay overnight which will be another boost for businesses in the area. Tom Wessling: He resides in Diamond Point and is a member of the South Warren Snowmobile Club. He believes that these opportunities need to be kept open for this area. He believes that for the time being Ellsworth Rd should be kept open until the County works out the easements and other issues that may arise. He states that it is important to respect the property owners as well. As counties connect it creates more enthusiasm for the sport which is good for tourism and the County and everyone else. Dave Rosek: He is a grooming coordinator on the Washington County side of the trail. His club is updating the equipment just for this trail. They are in the process of buying new equipment and spending a lot of money to keep the trail safer and keep it open and hopes that it is not lost. Nick Schremmer: 4

5 He lives at 96 Ellsworth Road. He has a lot of issues with the snowmobile trail. He agrees with the gentleman who stated that it took everyone by surprise; he counted 100 snowmobiles on a Saturday in about 1 ½ hours. He is not against snowmobiling but there must be another way to do it. He had an issue with the road being groomed and had to call the Highway Dept. to plow it several times. He also has a health issue and needs to walk 6 miles every day. When he walks he is surrounded by snowmobilers and although they are nice people he believes another route can be found. Hal Raven, III: He is a snowmobiler from Queensbury and has been riding these trails for years. He was glad to see the connection finally made this year knowing that a lot of hard work and dedication went into it. He had a hard time with the fact that the Highway Dept. would plow the road after the groomer and had challenges trying to hold on to his young children on the snowmobile. He believes there are other options that should be looked at because with the opening of this trail, Lake George could become a destination like Old Forge. Ronnie Bolton: She is from Pittsfield, MA. She comes to snowmobile often and this past winter came for four weekends. For them the average cost for a weekend is between $ to $ This year they found North Creek by following the railroad tracks and had dinner at a little diner there. Other costs associated with snowmobiling are fees for clubs and to NY State. She can get from her door to Lake George through Vermont, Washington and Warren County. If this trail can be expanded she can ride from Massachusetts to the Canadian border. She is familiar with the bike path and disagrees with Mr. Gillette s concern that snowmobilers can get on his property since he has big gates and the stone wall closing access to his property in the winter. She is impressed with the signage that is everywhere in this area and 99% of snowmobilers respect the signs. She urges everyone to find an alternative because it could be a big plus for the economy. Jim Vallestro: He owns the Adirondack Bar & Grill. He and other businesses in the area benefit from this trail. His business alone went up 32% for the winter months he wants to make sure that it is not lost. Duane Gillingham: He is a member of the North Warren Snow Mobile Club and is at the meeting for support. With his club he crosses and rides along many roads and believes that there are other alternatives. Grooming and snowplowing are a problem for them because they spend many hours grooming trails and when they come back through the snow plow has filled it back in. Mark McClain: He is from Lake Luzerne. He is the person who found Ellsworth Rd and realizes that all the residents on this road are not going to be happy with him. They have been looking many years to connect these trails together and he is also the guy who puts up all the signs and takes them back down in the spring. They are trying to keep snowmobilers from going to Canada and make Warren County a destination. He feels that Ellsworth Road is a temporary solution hoping that someday the bike path could be used however he never envisioned the amount of snowmobiles that used it. Mike Fazio: 5

6 He is the President of the Snow Mobile Club. He wants to thank everyone involved including the residents of Ellsworth Road and agrees with Mark that one year ago they did not know that Ellsworth Road existed. They are not in business to hurt people or upset anyone. Ellsworth Road was the last resort after investing a lot of time, money, effort and promises to people. They were trying to help businesses and the economy and it was something that happened at the 11 th hour. He would like to see everyone work together to find a solution that would make everyone happy. A few years ago Snow Goer Magazine printed a full feature article on Warren County which put it on the map. This article was one of the reasons why this was so successful this year because it caught on and everyone wanted to come. The trail systems that exist in this area are very unique and have a lot to offer. This is the first year and work needs to be done to make it better for the future. He recommends that the Town Board pass a speed limit ordinance for all roads used by snow mobiles so they can be enforced and applied by authorities since the club has no power or jurisdiction to set speed limits. They are the fifth largest club in New York State which is wonderful but it also brings a lot of traffic. Their season is usually one month although this year because of the exceptional amounts of snow fall it extended to three months which created a longer nuisance for the residents. Joe Mastrodomenico: He is a Village Trustee and would like to thank everyone on Ellsworth Road and agrees with Mike s suggestion about the speed limit. He hopes that a solution agreeable to everyone can be found. It would be a great help to the business in the Village, the Town as wells as Warren and Washington County. The Village will help as much as they can with the accessibility. Gregg Dunn: Warren Co. Sheriff He is from the Warren County Sheriff s Snow Mobile Unit and also an avid snowmobiler off duty. He is not for or against the Ellsworth Road access since he was not present at the beginning of the meeting and did not hear the residents concerns. However, in his experience, speed, noise and just overall safety are usually the primary issues. He agrees with Mike Fazio to regulate the snow mobile s speed on the roads; the NYS handbook currently indicates that the posted speed limit on a road applies to snow mobiles as well however it is difficult to write them. They are very strict with loud exhaust and he knows that anyone who lives near trails cannot stand this noise. Traditionally, once these tickets reach the courts they are usually lost or reduced most likely to keep tourists coming back to the area. Perhaps a meeting with the different areas judges should be arranged to reiterate the fact that when they see these tickets coming they need to enforce them in some manner. He and State Troopers will write dozens of tickets but when they get the dispositions back they are all dismissed. They have no control over that and it does nothing to regulate the speed, the noise and the safety. Lenny: NYS Police He is with the State Police Snow Mobile Enforcement Unit. He attended the meeting because he heard there were some complaints. He received a call from Mike Fazio to ask to increase their patrols on Ellsworth Road and it was quite heavy, often times they would bump into Gregg Dunn.. The second complaint was from the Director of Parks and Recreation because someone called them. They would prefer that the residents contact the State Police directly or the Sheriff s Department. They usually look for loud exhausts and try to utilize their resources. He agrees with Gregg as far as the courts are concerned; they cannot control what happens to the tickets once they are issued. Noise tickets are important because it is the number one complaint from anyone who lives near a trail. As far as safety they go out with lasers and radars for speed enforcement however it is hard to enforce it without speeding signs. If there is a problem with a child walking on the street, they need to know that as well. 6

7 Supervisor McCoy: He adds that when the Town put forth this ordinance, it was specified that the speed limit needs to be 5 miles per hour. Lenny: NYS Police He comments that it needs to be posted with signs, the signs need to be there, unobstructed and visible in order for them to enforce the speed limit. They do not want any speed traps for snowmobilers since for the most part they are good people. Brad Chambers: He would like to thank everyone for all the work they do and thank the snow mobile club and the land owners. He is a snowmobiler and appreciates it very much and he does not want to lose this trail. Michael Consuelo: He is a representative of the Lake George Chamber and Visitors Bureau. He is not going to make a stance on behalf of the Chamber for or against the trail. The Lake George area is a four seasons area and he is very often approached by people who want to come up to snowmobile trails and is asked what is opened and available for them when they do come up. He is happy to see that more people are thinking about winter and not just summer and hopes this trend continues. Supervisor McCoy: He comments that they will be looking at a lot of different things. He asks Mike what the deadline is for a decision. Mike Fazio advised him that he is trying to get funding from the State first since last year they did not get any money from Parks & Recreation. Supervisor McCoy asks him about their maps to which Mike replies that their maps are good for two years. He also mentioned the fact that someone could be coming up for snowmobiling and find the trail closed, in this instance there should be alternate routes signs. Debra Johnson She is asking if Mr. Gillette is in attendance. She heard someone mention that maybe the snow mobile club could rent some space from Mr. Gillette s parking lot and come up with a contract should there be any damages. She believes that it is a good idea since it is dangerous crossing Route 9 from Ellsworth Road. Mike Fazio replies that they tried and Mr.Gillette would not take their calls. A discussion ensues among the attendees. Debra Johnson: This is a great opportunity for Lake George to grow in the winter and would like to see everyone work together not against each other. Supervisor McCoy Replies that apparently Jack Gillette owns a little bit of the bike trail. He also states that he will be working with everyone to come up with some alternate solution; he appreciates everyone coming by and received great feedback. He replies that last year when he tried to talk to Mr. Gillette before Ellsworth Road was open, Mr. Gillette expressed concerns with insurance. He said that if he opened the bike trail to snowmobiles his insurance company would cancel the policy. 7

8 Kevin, from the audience, adds that all everyone needs to know is what Mr. Gillette s stake is since he holds the piece of the puzzle. Supervisor McCoy: He told Kevin to come in to his office if he would like to discuss it further. He promised a hearing and he arranged for one in order to hear everyone s concerns. Bob Barrett: He informs the Board that years ago he signed away a portion of his property to the Town so a turn around could be put in. Uncle Tony: On behalf of Ralph Macchio he states that it would be his honor and pleasure to allow people to go through the ranch since he has had no problems with the snowmobilers in the winter time and has no concerns with insurance. A motion was made to end the meeting at 8:25 p.m. All in Favor. Motion Carried. Minutes typed by Adele Behrmann. Respectfully submitted, Deborah Foley Town Clerk 8