Minutes of the South Snowdonia Local Access Forum Meeting held on Tuesday 15 th September 2009 at 5.45 pm At Canolfan Cywain, Y Bala

Transcription

1 Minutes of the South Snowdonia Local Access Forum Meeting held on Tuesday 15 th September 2009 at 5.45 pm At Canolfan Cywain, Y Bala Present Members: Mr Hedd Pugh (Chair) Mr Aled Thomas Mr Gethin Williams Mr O. Rhys Evans Mr E. Marshall Davies Mr Alun Edwards Mrs Swancott Pugh Mr Eifion Lewis Mr Eryl Jones Williams Officers / Observers: D Coleman (GC) Molly Lovatt (CCW) Peter Rutherford (SNPA) Rhian P Williams (SNPA) Barbara Jones (SNPA) Graeme Stringer (F.C) Peter Hewlett (Geo Caching) Vincent Mears (Chair Arfon Dwyfor LAF) 1. Apologies: Mrs Sue Townsend, Mrs Barbara Rogers, Mr Edmund Bailey HP welcomed BJ back into the fold following her absence. 2. Declaration of Interest None 3. Previous Minutes Approved 4. Matters Arising 6.ii P4. PR reminded members that ST had raised a questions regarding the `North West Wales NHS Trust Travel Plan`. He had since done some research and found that it was a travel plan to improve travel options for patients and staff - considering health benefits, `active travel`, reducing CO² emissions and reducing congestion. He could provide a copy to any member who wished to see the document. GW asked whether there was a time frame for the NP s Walking and Cycling Strategy. PR stated that there was no time frame but this would need to be written soon. BJ added that the Access Strategy would be written when the Review of the Warden and Access Service was completed. Realistically this would mean a start date of January

2 PR commented that some information was already being collated. 8. P10 EJW mentioned that he was supposed to liaise with GC`s Coastal Officer - Andy Godber regarding a meeting with Network Rail. This was difficult at the time owing to an already full agenda for their next meeting. He would contact AG to see what could be arranged for the following one. PR mentioned that the Annual Report for 2007/2008 was complete and that copies would be posted to all Forum members (from that time). He acknowledged that preparation of Annual Reports had fallen somewhat behind. i) WAG Petitions Committee Report. PR said that following the last meeting and the Petitions Committee Report regarding `access to water`, WAG s Sustainability Committee had begun an inquiry into access to inland water. This was included in the Agenda for discussion - item 9. ii) Cattle Attacks - PR had included the paper on `Cattle Attacks` for member s information. This had been written by a senior member of IPROW (Institute of Public Rights of Way Officers). Although there have been 3 deaths over the last 4 months, it is important to remember that this is still a rare event. This point was made by one of the farming unions in a recent discussion: the issue should be kept in perspective. He asked whether members thought it needed further discussion. HP commented that he had raised this issue as an agenda item for the forthcoming LAF Chairs conference in October. It was noted in the report that possibly some continental breeds could be included in the categories listed in the Highways Act, and thought this might be a problem as many farmers used this type on land with PROWs. SP supported this view. AE commented that `strict liability` (under the Animals Act) was an issue for landowners, who could be liable as the law stands for any incidents under any circumstances. This is an unfair situation and there is a real need to review legislation. HP mentioned the NFU had recently produced new guidance in the form of small public information signs about cattle for use on PROWs. PR said that he had recently seen examples in the New Forest. The local NFU representative had emphasised that there should not be an overreaction to this issue but that the public s attention should be drawn to it. ML volunteered to review CCW s advice/literature and bring any examples to the next meeting. EL asked who is responsible for advising the public on this issue on PROW. HP thought this was the landowners/tenant. No bull over 12 months of age can be alone in field containing a PROW, and no bull of any dairy breed (even with other stock) can be grazed on land with a PROW. 2

3 EL mentioned that any signage which stated `danger bull` would be an admission by the landowner of potential for harm and was not advisable. iii) Mawddach Exemplar Project Access to Water PR reminded members that they had asked for a copy of any final report arising from the Mawddach Exemplar access to water pilot. He has since obtained a copy (after much searching). Each pilot project was reviewed separately Wye and Usk, the Glaslyn, British Waterways Montgomery Canal, Pembroke coast and FC s Mawddach pilot. PR would make copies available to members who wished to see either the whole or part of the report. Agreed to circulate this as required by individual members. It was apparent that there had been some inter-agency issues and this was highlighted within the report. He read the following extracts: Snowdonia Active s report refers to problems in accessing detail of habitats and species data from the statutory body (CCW in this case) had been a rather serious barrier to the efficient running of the project. From the information received from the stakeholders and Snowdonia Active it is evident that no new access has been achieved on the Mawddach. The report also indicates that the reluctance of some rights holders to share the resource remains the a major obstacle to developing opportunities for water based recreation in the Mawddach catchment PR added that there had obviously been an impasse here possibly a reflection of the complexity of the situation i.e. riparian rights and conservation. The report acknowledged the input from the NP representative. Although he was not named this was the Senior Warden Dave Williams. AT asked what was to happen next. PR stated that this was now with WAG s Sustainability Committee and was on the agenda as item 9 MD mentioned that there had been a meeting some 3 months ago with Alun Fred AM. Various issues had been raised by the local angling clubs and he felt that some pressure may be applied to the Assembly and Westminster. ML acknowledged that a major issue was always access and egress points. Possibly these could be agreed within the context of conservation. However she thought the CCW was not prepared to `take the plunge` without substantial work on this given the sensitivity of the Mawddach in particular. 3

4 MD added that the Angling Club had written a conservation and management brief on the Mawddach and he thought this might be useful for members. Some conservation issues such as the fish hatchery and fresh water mussels were of concern. PR would liaise with MD over this. iv) Traws Ranges Long Term Plan AT reported that in the long term the 400Ha site would be allowed to return to natural upland woodland, largely through self regeneration. Regeneration is already apparent. CROW restrictions are problematic as they have to be applied for every 4-5 years but as has been said many times the cost of removing the munitions is prohibitive. PR noted that as time goes on the site will become more difficult to clear. AT acknowledged this but said that in the current financial climate he thought it unlikely that it would be cleared. MD added that anglers were very concerned about the quality of the water flowing from the area as this is polluted. This feeds into the Afon Gain and then into the Mawddach. AE asked how this situation sits in relation to the European Water Framework Directive where legislation will force landowners to manage such issues. PR reminded the members that the MOD commissioned a very expensive Environmental Report some 2-3 years ago. The NP has a copy if any member wishes to see it. Most pollution is emanating from the 2 main dump sites. HP commented that there is some Rhododendron growing in the area. AT acknowledged this and said that it is being monitored. MD asked whether PR could explore the possibility of having someone from the EA to address the Forum on this issue as these streams lead eventually into the Mawddach Agreed PR would endeavour to find the right officer from the EA 5. Correspondence i) Pont Briwat Replacement letter of support PR explained that GC had requested a letter of support from both NP Local Access Forums to assist them in their `convergence funding` application. In view of the fact that this would also assist the coastal access provision PR had drafted a joint letter signed by both Chairs on behalf of the LAFs. PR was unaware of any timeframe. 4

5 ii) Gwynedd Council Public Rights of Way Policies Consultation PR advised that this item was in the agenda for further discussion as item 8. Copies have been circulated by post. iii) Forestry Commission Countryside Access Exclusion or Restriction of Access Wales Regulation Notice of a proposed direction to exclude or restrict the right of access for a period that may exceed 6 months. PR explained that this was a copy of the letter sent to the FC from the Forum following the FC request for exclusion under CROW on its section of the Traws Ranges. 6. Geo Caching Peter Hewlett PH explained that his main occupation was as a provider of the Edge of Wales Walks walking holidays based in the Llyn Peninsula. He also rents cycles and works closely with the North Wales Tourism Partnership and their project `Walking North Wales` and occasionally does some work for Visit Wales WAG s Tourism Department. This included assisting with the promotion of `geo caching`. Geo caching may be best described as a hi tech treasure hunt played out both in the countryside and towns by using a combination of GPS (Global Positioning System) and information held on the internet. This involves people hiding items and giving accurate map (GPS) references to enable participants to find them. His objectives for promotion of this `sport` within Wales are: To encourage more visitors to Wales and to make Wales a destination for this activity. Items hidden are often in interesting places and placed in many different types of boxes or containers. They sometimes contain log books for signing, exchange items, travel items things which might be taken around the world to be left anywhere in other global geo caching sites. Their movement can be followed by messages posted on the internet. Getting started. The website is geocaching.com. This gives a lot of information on how to get started. Advice on what to buy, what equipment is necessary, and a users etiquette - what permissions are needed. He stressed that proper etiquette should prevent any problems. The website also gives users access to current geo caching locations in a map format. The current map holds some 4000 different locations within Wales where items are hidden. The site also shows who placed them (group or individual) including their identification and description of the item/s and location including map references. Finding exact locations can be further complicated by depositors leaving clues e.g. a puzzle or a cryptic clue. Some points may be multi caches linked to each other and may involve a good deal of imagination and ingenuity. 5

6 A visitor or family visiting Bala could download all the information they require then head off to the chosen geocache site. It gives an additional dimension to the visitor experience. AE asked whether seekers have to return to a PC for each successive piece of information. PH stated that usually there would be sufficient information on site to enable a person to manually place the next piece of information on their GPS. He stressed that this activity encourages the `I Pod` generation out into the countryside and adds something to a simple family walk. HP asked whether the cache is left where it is. PH stated that this is generally left alone. Why is the activity growing so fast? This is planning for the family as a countryside activity and is particularly popular with the new internet savvy generation. It teaches people to follow etiquette with the added dimension of social networking. He thought that geo caching trails may be a way forward to encourage people into this `sport`, as people may be reluctant to spend 80 for their outlay of equipment. Hiring out equipment and giving people a taster is effective, and Coed Y Brenin has taken this up by offering a trail with some equipment for hire. Bodelwyddan Castle and Gwynedd Council have shown an interest. Celtic Manor in Newport has also installed a trail. The next development will be `earth caching` trails where this can be done purely over the internet and linked into audio trails. ML asked whether this could be done with a mobile phone. PH responded that this is the plan, although it is not available as yet. GS (FC) mentioned that Blue Tooth technology could be attached to a mobile phone to enable the user to download information. EJW said that mobile phone reception in parts of Gwynedd is poor. PH said this technology uses the GPS satellites and is not linked into the mobile phone network He mentioned they had been assisting with the formulation of the code of conduct and the publicity. The code includes the following: Permission is required from landowners. Should not contain food Should be hidden 6

7 Should be regularly inspected by the person who laid it No digging or disturbance No hiding in stone walls (but can be strapped to things) Participants are encouraged to pick up litter. Leave the place as you find it ORE commented that it would be difficult to control or manage say 20 participants looking in walls or other hiding places. PH stated that that type of activity would be alien to the ethos of geo caching. SP asked whether people pay to participate or become members and where the code of conduct is to be found. PH said that there is a small fee for use of the website. The first level of access is free and the code of conduct is on the website. HP commented that it could be a worry for landowners that people may be possibly trespassing or disturbing stock whilst undertaking this activity and asked whether PH had any thoughts on this. PH mentioned that in some cases people comment (on the website) about such issues. If there was a problem this would be identified and the cache removed. As organisers they have only been contacted twice over 12 months and this was regarding permissions. AT asked about the numbers of participants. PH. There are some 4000 in Wales with about 1m worldwide. ML asked whether sensitive conservation areas are avoided PH stated that this was included in the code of conduct. GS commented that most geo caches are alongside footpaths and are generally easy to find AE added that it was commendable that so much effort had been put into the code of conduct. PH said that beauty of this was that is was all fully transparent and that if problems arose a site could be removed very quickly from a website. ORE stated that he had recently received some requests for geo caching points on National Trust land. In his opinion the web site was professionally run and contained a lot of useful information. HP thanks PH for his most interesting presentation 7

8 7. The Forestry Commission Access and Recreation in Meirionnydd Graeme Stringer GS explained that his role over the last 5 years was as Access and Recreational Manager for the Forestry Commission in Meirionnydd. This included Coed y Brenin, the Dyfi Forest and Bala areas. This presentation would focus on the FC s perspective on access and recreation in Meirionnydd and specifically on his work at Coed Y Brenin. It is the Welsh Assembly Government which dictates FC s policies and direction, which is laid down in the policy document Woodlands for Wales. There are 2 threads which are the main drivers of recreational management. a) Health and Well Being b) Rural regeneration. The bulk of recreational work is based in the Coed Y Brenin Forest Park. The new `sustainable` visitor centre has been open for 3 years. The old centre used to get somewhere in the region of 80,000 visitors a year who were mostly mountain bikers. The new centre was built with European grant aid and part of the point of its creation was to expand the user `audience`. The original business plan allowed for 120,000 visitors per year. Within the first 12 months the figures were 127,000 and it has become a victim of its own success. The number of mountain bikers has only increased by around 2000., demonstrating that the increase of 50,000 was not mountain bikers but other visitor types. This is consists of family groups and increased local use. The technical mountain bike routes are graded green, blue, red and black. This is similar to skiing slopes where the gradient of difficulty increases as it heads towards black. To diversify the audience, family trails with destinations within the forest were constructed to compliment the traditional CYB mountain bike trails. Future development may include making the site more accessible to a greater range of people: possibly constructing some trails suitable for `adaptive bikes`. These are either 2 wheeled wheelchairs or 3 wheeled trikes. GS stressed that Coed y Brenin was the first site in the UK to bring in purpose built, way marked mountain bike trails and is considered cutting edge. FC is anxious to maintain this standard, but is aware that competition is growing in the rest of the UK. Diversifying and increasing audience participating in forest activities, taking more exercise and fulfilling the Assembly s health and fitness agenda is a major goal. There are no community based trails within Coed y Brenin but there are trails on FC land built elsewhere. These are built, run, maintained and advertised by community groups. Examples of these are the Climax Trail in Machynlleth and the Penmachno Trail, which also illustrate that the FC s recreational role is not soley carried out or driven by the FC, and that other communities can benefit from this type of resource. 8

9 Within CYB there is now a strong emphasis on walking trails. The bus service was always considered crucial. After considerable negotiation Arriva finally agreed to come as far as the Centre itself, and has been a major success. The Meirionnydd Disabled Access Group supported this and the DDA was a major contributory factor in affecting the bus company s decision. The FC has taken the view that it will not tell people whether a path is suitable or not. It has adopted the social model of inclusion, aiming to provide a resource accessible to all at all times and then working backwards from that position. Notice boards include information on gradient, surface, width and details of furniture. Some of the trails are paths to Tyn Y Groes where the tallest trees in the forest are located and are accessible along an all ability trail. Within the forest park there is a series of all ability trails leading to features such as mine workings, the arboretum and picnic sites. They are all built to Fieldfare Trust specifications and with the involvement of the Meirionnydd Access Group which has contributed some creative ideas. The centre is used by organised local walking groups including Nordic walking. Coloured footprint routes are popular with families and other individuals or small groups can arrange walks to link into the Public Rights of Way network within the forest. One of the advantages of a forest is the ability to absorb many people while maintaining a sense of remoteness. Other activities within the Forest. Play provision FC has deliberately moved away from the traditional type of equipment. Most is timber based with rubber flooring and accessible to all although all trails immediately around the Centre have tarmaced surfaces. Future developments may include an informal `free play area` away from the more formal areas where children can be encouraged to build dens, climb trees, dam the streams and re engage with the environment. The FC accepts that risk is an essential part of play. In terms of risk assessment hazards can be removed but some risk remains. It is an interesting fact that the FC is self insured, which gives greater flexibility on what can be achieved on site, provided that adequate risk assessment, inspection and record keeping is adhered to. PR queried how mountain bikers could claim for damages if they know that this type of activity and terrain is potentially dangerous. GS cited an instance of a claim on a site in south Wales where a sign may have been missing. Inspections and records are crucial to good management. Other Diverse Activities Orienteering - one of the more well known forest activities apart from walking and biking. Four courses exist graded easy to difficult. This also includes a simple animal trail and a more modern geo caching course using GPS on foot. 9

10 Running trails Instigated by the local running club which asked for provision. This was done at low cost by using the existing walking trails and forest tracks and has proved very popular. Interpretation Using ideas to get people out and about in the forest. Using audio trails (downloadable from the internet with a laptop available in the centre). Tri-lingual tree labels. Events Include legs of the British Cycling Championships. Trail races and many children s events within the forest. In Easter 2010 they are expecting a High Wire Course which is an exiting development and will hopefully encourage more people to stay locally. This also lends itself to team building and/or corporate days where people can go mountain biking one day and high wire course the next. E4G Europe For Growth. The FC has formed a partnership to look at cycling potential in Meirionnydd. FC is looking for an extension to the centre building already at capacity. Construction of a new blue level cycle trail with the potential for `adaptive bike` use which can be stored at the new bike shop in the building extension. Potential for Access to Water As this issue was on the agenda, GS made the following points. If access to water was initiated using existing facilities within CYB. Access and egress points crucial Gorge walking quite troublesome and raising conservation issues. Canoeing potential for conflict with angling Gold Panning potential for fish kills & disturbance He stressed that having more formalised access to water provision may enable mechanisms to help regulate these activities which do not happen today. This would be beneficial to the local economy and especially the shoulder season. B&B s which cater for mountain bike users already have storage drying facilities. CYB has facilities such as showers but are not used. Riverside access to rivers within CYB has a potential to expand fishing activities for disabled anglers. HP thanked GS for his interesting presentation. He made the point that this dispelled any myths that the FC was all about cutting and planting trees, and that CYB was contributing a great deal to the local economy. AT mentioned that many people use the forest for dog walking. 10

11 8. Gwynedd Council - Public Rights of Way Review David Coleman (4 minutes!) DC said that the consultation document they had already received has been responded to by others. Forum members have agreed to have a joint response from the 3 LAFs in Gwynedd and a sub group will meet soon to discuss this. PR added that names have now been received from the Arfon Dwyfor LAF and that he would organise a meeting for the sub group at Plas Tan Y Bwlch. He would circulate details by . DC stated that if any other members had comments they would like to make they could do so. HP congratulated DC on keeping this to 3 minutes! 9. Access to Water WAG Sustainability Committee Consultation BJ explained that she understood that the Forum had received a copy of the Assembly s Petitions Committee Report on Access to Water. This report noted that the issue would be passed on the Sustainability Committee (SC). The SC has now issued a brief consultation in the form of a questionnaire. The relevant question is the final one in the questionnaire: Can you briefly outline what you think are the key issues associated with access to inland waters in Wales and how you would like to see this addressed? This has a response deadline of the 19 th of September but the SC has confirmed that it will be happy to receive the Forums views a little later. BJ will collate responses from both the Access Forums and submit them to the NP s Planning and Access Committee at its next meeting on the 7 th October. She will submit the Forums and the Authority s views separately to the SC. This evening she hoped that the Forum could arrive at conclusions through consensus where possible. GW stated that a key issue for landowners would be the issue of additional liability. HP added that access/egress points would be an issue. Whilst access points could be well regulated in terms of location and parking, eegress points may be less easily regulated as canoeists could exit at any point of choosing. AE stressed that this is an important point as currently canoeists are accessing rivers over private land through trespass. For some farmers access and egress points are crucial as many have fenced off river banks under publicly funded schemes. Damage to those fences may also cause stock problems. He found it interesting that the FC had indicated in the previous discussion that they wished to see more regulated use of waterways. 11

12 ML commented that access should be by agreement and appreciated that this was not always possible. She was sure that users would soon get used to such arrangements on rivers and the situation could be comparable to the BMC s voluntary climbing arrangements. ORE queried who would be responsible for access and egress points. Would this lie with the Local Authority, the landowners or others. This would need clarification as there may be considerable costs involved. There was a need for education and joint management MD thought that the economic value of angling, which he estimated to be around 100m in Wales was crucial to this debate. With some 32m in Gwynedd this was a large economic generator. If anglers have to pay a licence and are covered by insurance then any new arrangements must be equitable. If other users were willing to be controlled or monitored by bailiffs then there might be room for discussion. He felt that some users did not want to discuss this issue and wanted unrestricted access. It should be remembered that the angling clubs do much more than fish. They stock rivers, and carry out conservation work. Currently river canoeists have no identification. Anglers breaking the rules can be penalised whereas canoeists cannot be sanctioned in any way. BJ commented that this evening s deliberations would be the consensus from the Forum as a whole in relation to `access to water`. AE said that if the Forum was looking at inconsistencies in the current situation between. anglers and canoeists, what would be the reaction if rod licences were removed to make things fairer. GW made the point that as someone who is managing conservation issues on his land he appreciated that there are some important conservation issues to be considered in this debate. AT concurred with the view that access and egress points were crucial to good management of access to water more especially where conservation issues are predominant. He appreciated economic factors but his overall concern was that if access to water became a reality who would monitor and police it. ORE reiterated his concern over education and information. Adequate on site information was crucial especially at access and egress points and regarding suitable water levels. Within the Glaslyn agreement area these had been agreed with the British Canoeing Association. In his experience only some 2% of canoeists are in breach of the agreement over the past 2 years. EJW agreed that suitable formal access and egress points are essential to manage the issue. Clarification was required on the issue of liability. The question of who controls or oversees this `access to water` needs to be clear and what measures should or can be applied to areas of high conservation interest. An interesting comparison could be made to the problem of jet skiing in Meirionnydd some years ago when Gwynedd Council obliged users to be licensed. He thought the same type of initiative could be used for access to water. 12

13 He also thought that improved access to water should be applied by agreement rather than by coercion through legislation. EL asked whether gorge walking was a problem. ML replied that it was, and that damage can be caused. From a conservation perspective canoeing per se was not damaging to rivers generally except at access and egress points but that this should be combined with suitable water levels. MD mentioned that within the Glaslyn there are still problems with canoeists going beyond their limit of agreement, with some proceeding beyond the Aberglaslyn bridge. He appreciated that this was beyond the National Trust landholding. ORE stated that there were over 150 outdoor centres within the NP. He said that gorge walking was an especially difficult issue to deal with and that there was a distinct lack of information. ML stated that there was definitely a capacity issue in relation to gorge walking. HP at this stage asked for a round up of points on this issue to enable BJ to respond. He thought from the general discussion that there was no opposition to the principle of improving access to inland water from the Forum members. BJ rounded up the points raised as follows: a) appreciation that issue is more than canoeing vs. anglers b) regulated access and egress points are crucial c) the issue of liability is of serious concern d) river fencing issues e) adequate water levels BJ asked members whether it might be a good idea to recommend individual river and lake audits to assess their suitability for recreational access. HP commented that he thought this crucial and that the audit should be mapped ML concurred that areas could undergo some form of assessment or mapping process in terms of conservation..i.e. is it canoe able or is it fishable. BJ cited the example of freshwater mussels surely it would make sense to exclude such areas. MD agreed with this tack and mentioned that the angling associations run fish hatcheries and this is the same scenario ORE added that it was crucial that such a process did not exclude or alienate all users as they were a valuable economic resource in the area. 13

14 f) that an audit or mapping assessment be applied to all rivers and lakes for suitability for access to water All agreed. HP concluded that as far as he was aware this one of the few Forums to have received relevant preparatory information over the last 2 years or so. He felt that without this the Forum could have not come to any sensible conclusion this evening and thanked everyone for their contribution. AE asked what the situation was on canals. PR replied that after some research British Waterways do allow canoeing through licensing. 10. Site visit Snowdon Summit PR reminded members that there was joint field trip together with the Northern Snowdonia Forum and the Arfon Dwyfor Forum to view the new Snowdon Summit Building on the 28 th September. He stressed that members should send in their return slips as soon as possible so he could finalise the arrangements with the Snowdon Mountain Railway. He asked members to please be at the station for 1.15 pm. 11. Any Other Business a) HP invited Vincent Mears Chair Arfon Dwyfor LAF to address the members. VM explained that he was at the meeting to glean some opinion on the proposed expenditure cuts in the various Gwynedd Departments including the Rights of Way section. He has undergone a long correspondence with Gwynedd, WAG and the CCW regarding these issues. The proposed cuts will affect the Maritime section 35k cuts and possibly affecting blue flag designations and a reduction in Harbour Master services, 100k from the public toilets budget with 22 being closed and 15 only left open in the summer months. His major concern is the cuts in the Rights of Way of Way budget. This year (2009/2010) has already seen a cut of 51k - approximately 14% of the budget, whilst the overall target of budget cuts within Gwynedd is in the region of 4%. This amounts to 35k in direct cuts with 16k being diverted to the coastal scheme as a 25% contribution to 2 salaries. Staff cuts have also occurred and as posts become vacant they are not filled. If this situation is forwarded to 2013 when both coastal and ROWIP come to an end it will leave the department with little or no budget and barely be able to function. This should be of concern to us as Forum members. He asked for support, with a proposal that the Forums jointly write to all the Gwynedd Councillors to highlight this issue. They will be making budget cuts decisions for the 14

15 Public Toilet closures in October and the Rights of Way cuts in December. So time is of the essence and a joint letter would achieve more. He stressed the point that the tourism sector in Gwynedd was worth somewhere in the region of 805m to the local economy (based on Gwynedd s own figures) and was one of the largest contributors to the local economy. Within the Public Rights of Way Policy Review Consultation Gwynedd proposes to ignore certain categories of footpath altogether. This is contra to Highways legislation which states that the Local Authority has a `duty to maintain`. Gwynedd has admitted publically that it is planning to reduce maintenance of Prow s and will only maintain some 50% of the highway. This situation is ironic as anecdotally visitor numbers are `up` significantly this year. Some attempt to reverse what is proposed must be made before it is too late. In addition the attitude of very senior officers within Gwynedd is that the Forums are a waste of time and should not show any interest in financial matters. EJW for the record stated at this point that if he had known this was on the agenda (as last minute AOB) he would have declared an interest, as would GW. So respectfully they would not contribute to the discussion. AE commented that after all our deliberations regarding the potential for improving recreational resources within Gwynedd, and with tourism a major economic driver (up to 60%) such cuts did not make sense. He was also concerned that the Forum should be listened to. HP stated that the purpose of LAFs was to advise Local Authorities on access issues. Ring fencing for Rights Of Way management has always been recommended but this advice has been consistently ignored. HP reminded the members that the FORUM was here to champion the notion of access in the countryside. He appreciated Gwynedd Councillors dilemma in this instance. ORE noted that the situation was not unique to Gwynedd as Local Authorities everywhere are facing cuts.. EL asked who had carried out the budget cut assessments and would it be a useful exercise to assess the rise in figures this year. EJW suggested that the letter should go to every member of the relevant board. Not every member is on every committee. HP asked whether the members would support VM s proposal to send a joint letter to Gwynedd Councillors once a draft has been approved. VM confirmed that he would draft this but would any Forum members be willing to meet with some of these councillors. 15

16 HP or the Vice Chair could do this but would sort out who could attend between them. HP asked that VM write this and send on to PR for the Chair s attention. Agreed. 12. Agenda Items for next meeting a) Suggested a presentation by Ceredigion s Coastal Path Project Officer if available. Agreed PR would look into this. b) GW asked whether we could enquire into what the plans were for the old section of the Ganllwyd road once the new section was open. PR said that he would find out from the Trunk Road Agency 13. Time and date of next meeting 24 th November 6pm venue to be advised. 16

17 1) Can we get someone from the EA to discuss this issue re the pollution potential re the local river and re Traws ranges pollution issue 2) ML volunteered to find CCW advice on this cattle etc. 3) European Water Framework Directive 4) Trunk road agency Ganllywyd bends 5) MD anglers conservation plan Mawddach 17