NOTE: The interviewer s questions and comments appear in parentheses. Added material appears in brackets.

GEORGE EUGENE (GENE) SAWHILL. Born 1928. TRANSCRIPT of OH 1707A-B This interview was recorded on January 30, 2011, for the Maria Rogers Oral History Program of the Carnegie Branch Library for Local History. The interviewer is Heidi Pate. The interview also is available in video format, filmed by Liz McCutcheon. The interview was transcribed by Diane Baron. ABSTRACT: Gene Sawhill talks about growing up in what was the community of Valmont, just north of Boulder. He mentions his family's arrival there from the Midwest, and describes his many years of working for the Public Service Company and serving as a ditch rider for two local ditches. Gene describes scenes from his childhood, his affiliation with the Valmont Presbyterian Church, and his family's continuing involvement with farming and ranching in the area. NOTE: The interviewer s questions and comments appear in parentheses. Added material appears in brackets. [A]. 00:00 (Today is January 30, 2011, and my name is Heidi Pate. I'm interviewing for the first time Gene Sawhill, and our interview is taking place in his home at 6967 Valmont Road. Gene is a farmer and a ditch rider for Butte Mill Ditch and Jones & Donnelly Ditch. This interview is recorded for the Maria Rogers Oral History Program of the Carnegie Branch Library for Local History. The interview is being filmed by Liz McCutcheon. So, Gene, tell me when and where you were born.) I was born in Boulder Community Hospital back in January 1, 1928. (And did you grow up in Valmont?) Yes, I did. (Can you tell me a little bit about what it was like growing up in Valmont. Did the rest of your family also grow up in Valmont?) Yes. I used to play in the trucks in the ditch bank like I was hauling stuff and dumping it in the ditch or whatever. Then a lot of that you miss that you don't know exactly you're just a kid, and you don't pay much attention to what's going on other than just what you're doing. Gene Sawhill Interview Page 1

My father milked cows and my mother had chickens and that was right next door to where my father he wasn't born there, but he was born just over the hill, below the cemetery. He added this house, and we lived there for a few years. There were lots of trees on there and I remember him cutting them and making fence posts out of them. That was Black Locusts. In conjunction with that, we had a couple of horses we would ride, and then for a long time the neighbors would come in and help us fill sod. And from then there was just well, one thing I remember, and I've seen it in one of the books not too long ago, in grasshopper time, they had a float that they would push with horses and a shield up there, and the grasshoppers would fall back in the oil and die that way. So it was really interesting. Other than that it was just a normal kind of during that course of time there was an old Fortune tractor purchased, but somehow I think it was Dick Anderson who was cranking it, and it kicked back and hurt his back, and I think my dad was superstitious and never ran it again. There was an old shop there that used to be a log cabin years and years ago. With that there was a grain bin put in and then a vice where you could get in there and work on sickles and whatever. Adjacent to that was an old machinery shed that held a lot of goodies, you know, like back then they would call it a reaper, but it cut the grain and would bundle it up, and then people came and shocked it up later on. I remember one nice thing back in there, there was an old buggy that was stored back in there. My dad had it and another little old one-cylinder gasoline engine that they used for numerous things around the cement mixer. We had a pump off of it. And that was about that. 05:43 Later on, that would have been in the late 1930s, there were some neighbors who lived up the road from us, and we had a place in fact it was down here where the old grist mill was erected. There was an opening down in there, and we'd go down and camp out at night. But this buggy was used, pulled by a horse with a lariat rope and then they guided the wheels with ropes to it, and somewhere we were going down the road, and we were going pretty fast, and it ran off the road and I think broke about 4 or 5 eggs out of the dozen eggs we were going use to have breakfast with. Numerous things like that (Gene, can you tell me a little more about the grist mill. Was that in operation when you were?) No, in fact I just did run across some information on it. We always thought it was the Butte Mill and Irrigating Company the ditch it was on but it was originally the Jones & Donnelly Ditch, which was really early. And the water ran into the Butte Ditch before the Butte Ditch was put into operation and ran the grist mill. And my sister has the old stone that they used to grind the wheat with, and it still right up there at her house. That Gene Sawhill Interview Page 2

was what they called from the information I received was old Housel grist mill. In fact, where my sister lives is actually the house that was built by Mr. Housel. (Yeah, let's talk about that, Gene. Your father, he was also born in Valmont, you said. How about your grandparents? What were their names and were they also born in Valmont or did they come from?) They came from back East there in Iowa. My grandfather, as far as I recollect, he cut firewood for steam engines up there up above Georgetown Silver Plume, I think it was. Then he moved down, and about the only thing I can glean out of everything was that they lived down by Erie, a little town called Canfield, and they moved right in there by Valmont, probably about the 1890s or somewhere in there, and that's where my father was born. (That was the Housel property you said?) Well, at that time they moved down to where the original house is now, and that is on the old Canyon property at that time. They had a dairy there and they milked cows and numerous people lived right around there close and (And your grandfather's name again was?) Lewis. (And your grandmother's name?) Maggie or Marjorie. (And your father was George?) Yes. And I was George Eugene, but I went by Gene all my life. 10:54 (Did you ever talk to your grandfather about what interested them in bringing them out to Colorado from Iowa?) No. Well, I had three uncles and two of them at birth, and the other he was about 28 when he passed away. (And what were their names?) Robert, and I forget the other one. But the oldest one was John, who was older than my father. Then there was another brother in there or an uncle, Uncle Charlie, who passed away in 1990. (So the farmhouse there that's still standing, how many acres did your grandfather start out with, do you recall?) Gene Sawhill Interview Page 3

I think it was probably about 140 acres. (And how many acres of the original farmstead are still in the Sawhill family?) Well, that would be about 20 acres, which would be Keeter trucking, and the Pioneer Landscaping business is in there, but they're all on the old Sawhill property. (You mentioned the Keeter Trucking. Now your sister you have a sister did you have other brothers and sisters?) Yes, I had an older sister, Katherine, and a younger brother, Walter, and then there was me, and there was about 12 years difference between Joy and me. (And Joy's last name is Keeter, is that correct? And that's the Keeter Trucking right down the road here to the west?) Yes. (And can you tell me when you were growing up, Gene, in the area, what kind of wildlife was around in the Boulder Creek area, and was it much different from the way things are now?) It's quite a bit different. I never did see deer like they have in part of the country. I used to go trapping a little bit for skunks and muskrats. I do know back over not too far from here on Anders Hill they had prairie dogs, which at that time were taken care of by people just shooting them but not having a lot of sport out of it. But nowadays they are pretty well preserved with laws and all that. They've served their purpose, but back in 1946, I think, they started the gravel pits. They moved in here, and I remember the first one was right on my dad's place. It was right next to the same Boulder Creek and Mary Hummel had one just north of that. That's when I got interested in the Hescher [?] and Todd company that started the gravel pit. Then there's some good friends from up in the Sugarloaf area, Dick and Ernie Betasso, who worked there for years at the gravel pit. I remember driving a truck there a little bit. Other than that, why, you kept growing up, school and high school 15:41 (Speaking of school, did you end up going to school in Valmont for your elementary school or did you go all the way through high school or?) I went up to the 8th grade at Valmont. Mrs. Stoyber [?] and Mrs. Zigler or Zyegler is how they pronounced that and Mrs. Wilson taught us. We used to have a lot of fun there at the school house playing on the swings. Gene Sawhill Interview Page 4

I remember and not too many remember this, but there was Mike Stengler [?] and his family who lived across Boulder Creek there by where the fish hatchery is at, and they had a farm there. But the kids would come down, and then when the stream was high in the spring there was a suspension bridge across there, and then they'd walk on over to the Valmont School. I do know that Chuck Stengler, we always called him Sonny, but he'd get on this swing set and go clear over. He had more guts than I did. [laughter] (The school house, is that still standing in Valmont?) Yes, that school. There was another building there, they called it the "Teach-reach [?] and back in the early '40s, my wife's dad and mother and some of the kids lived there in the "Teach-reach." That's where we got acquainted. I remember her mother got after me for getting a little bit mean with my brother, and so she took a broom after me. [laughter] There were also other families that lived there in the old Teach-reach until the early '40s when they tore it down. I think it was the original school there at Valmont for quite a while, and it sat just south of where the Valmont school is sitting now. Another thing I always liked was our neighbor to the north of us, Bert Anders, he had a truck garden farm and then he raised sheep. He'd grow watermelons and cantaloupe and tomatoes and sweet corn. He had quite a stand set up there right where you turn east of off of 61st right on Anders Road now. His daughter-in-law, who was Geneva Anders, she had a brother who lived down there in Pueblo, and we'd go out and ride horses at night, and they had a little Shetland pony called White Tail. Somehow the horse and I and a bicycle collided at night, but we picked up the pieces alright, and I got an arm that was kind of green broken. It kind of bent a little bit, so I wound up in Dr. Hueston's [?] office and got it in a caste. 20:41 (Now where was Dr. Hueston [?]?) He was right there in Boulder, on Broadway between Walnut and Pearl in an office building in there. We used to do a lot of skinny dipping down in Boulder Creek. Until later on, the City of Boulder didn't have a sewage plant operating, so it was got a little bit contaminated, but we had a lot of fun in there. Well, the gravel pits came through and destroyed the looks of the area in there. (When you were growing up on your original farm there, what were some of the childhood chores that were kind of common here. With the property still standing, you Gene Sawhill Interview Page 5

mentioned the gravel pits coming in and such, how did that change over time. Why did the gravel start up, and how did that start up?) Well, we put up a lot of hay later on for the dairy, and I can remember running the stacker wagon there with the horse pulling up the stacker. The hay was on forks, and you'd bring it up and throw it over on the pile, and then about two men would keep it sorted out and build the stack up. At that time, there was a lot of salt used to preserve the hay and dry it, and then also it made it so you could feed it out a lot better. Cows liked it really well. (Oh, because of the salt?) Yes. Back in the 50s, there was a bailer brought in, and we bailed hay and worked it that way. (So prior to 1950, you still had horses for the hay operation?) I remember the first tractor we got for us was an International H and that was about the last one that came into the country before the war [World War II] or right after the war. We sure were lucky to get a good tractor like that, and I used to plow with it. Of course, I was just at the right age where I got to drive it a lot. We used to plow some fields up for the Long's Gardens. They had that and later on there was a blacksmith's shop here in Valmont, and Bill Polzin, his father ran the blacksmith shop, but Bill and his father had passed away by that time he built a loader for the tractor. 25:19 (Oh yeah, for the front end.) Yeah. That was called the cat's meow. (How did that help with your farming?) You could get the corrals cleaned pretty much in no time. And quite a few of them were built by the Polzins and Dick Anders was in on it too. They really used it to build that up. And at the blacksmith shop, they would sharpen plowshares, and they built truck beds. I remember one of the beds were built for Charlie Pancost and his son Howard, who used to live right close here. (The old blacksmith shop, is that still standing in Valmont?) The building is. Chuck Chrisman runs DC Auto out of that. During that one period of time, Jim Single I went to school with him but he ran a welding shop in there. He was a mechanic too, and he would put in new engines or rebuild an engine. Prior to that, that old shop we have pictures of it steam engines lined up out there to be worked on. Gene Sawhill Interview Page 6

One other thing I forgot to mention was the same old buggy that we had, we had pulled it up almost to Valmont Cemetery, and we used to ride down off the hill with that. It would get going pretty fast (You kids would do that?) Yeah. Then I remember the WPA or the County had people working down below, shoveling dirt in a truck, and I guess we scared the hell out of them when we came down behind them. (That was the top of Valmont Butte?) Yeah, just about. It was pretty good fall down there, but now it's all filled up, not completely, but with a tailing pond. Allied Chemical had a mill up there, and that ore was coming in from up there by Left Hand and Jimtown. They'd haul it in there. I remember as a kid, I would ride with one of the truck drivers, they would give me a ride and we would go up there, and they'd bring it down and process the ore there at the mill. The water for that was pumped up from the Jones and Donnelly Ditch. It was quite interesting, the procedure they used. At one time they figured it was polluting our well there where we live so they'd go dig another well down there just south of the house and across the Butte Ditch. That worked out pretty well. 30:42 (You mentioned the cemetery up there. Did you have some family buried up there?) Yes. I have a grandfather and grandmother, also two of those uncles. One was a young one, a baby, and the other was about 28 or something like that. (And when you were growing up, playing around the Butte, had your folks ever mentioned any of the Native Americans in this area, either around the Butte itself or up around Niwot, this whole area?) Not so much. And I've been over that hill a lot of times, and I've never seen any evidence of them, but if they got in there, more power to them, because it's changed the course of history right in there. (Gene, you said you went to grade school in Valmont, where did you go to high school then?) Well, I went to Northside which is I can't even think of what they call it now [Casey Middle School] for one year, the ninth grade; then over to Boulder High for the next three years. Gene Sawhill Interview Page 7

After that, a good friend of mine and I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1946, and we weren't in too long. We got out because the war was over, and in 1947 we came back into the area here. This friend of mine was Earl Jewell [?], and another good friend was Don Metcalfe coming from Boulder, playing basketball. Somehow right there where Sutherland's Lumber used to be, there was a train crossing there's still trains cross the tracks there but somehow they swung and Don Metcalfe's head hit the side of the door jamb. Earl asked him, "Are you alright?" And he said, "Yeah." And in just a matter of minutes he was dead. A cerebral hemorrhage, I think that's what they said it was. So I said, "If I ever have a son, I'll name him for Don." (And you do have a son named Donald, don't you?) Yes. (That's great. That's a nice story.) Then his family moved down towards the Wiggins area. I remember seeing one of them up there, and his sister taught school at Valmont a little bit, and Joy went to school under her. 35:15 (And what was her name?) Carol. (And when you came back in '47, when did you decide to go into farming? Is that what you did right when you came back?) Well, I got a job right there at the gravel pit. (And what was that called then?) Hescher [?] and Todd. Then I worked off and on until 1950. When the Korean War started, I was in the reserves, and they called me up and had just married my first wife (And her name was?) Her first name was Iola, Iola Ruth. But she always went by Patsy, that's how come I got two Pats. [chuckles] Gene Sawhill Interview Page 8

(Was Iola from Boulder also?) Yes. Her step-father ran a taxicab in Boulder. (And what was his last name?) Reese, Bud Reese. We spent about three years in the service at Camp Pendleton. I was thinking I'd be called to go to Korea but I'd have like to see the country but not the war and then it was over, and we came back, and I got started farming and worked for a couple of the boys that had an excavating company, the Kennedy brothers. I worked for them for, gosh, I don't know how long. And off and on I drove a truck for Ready Mix, and then drove one for the gravel pit down here, and just kept busy. Then back in about 1950, we got rid of the cows. Then in about 1961, a friend of mine, Ray Orbe [?], said there was a vacancy at the Valmont power plant, Public Service Company, and somehow I passed this test and got in and worked there for 39 years. (Oh, really! In addition to your farming?) Yes. (And what were you doing at the power plant?) I started in as a janitor, and then as a fireman, then became a control operator, and worked my way up to a shift supervisor. That's what I was when I retired. (And so concurrently when you were working at the power plant, when did you buy your farm here, and what made you decide to get back into farming too?) My mother, back in 1947 my father and her bought a piece of property north of the railroad tracks, and I got the other piece, south. We never did too much with it until that was back in the 1950s. And then started working the I got back into farming some and the dairy. It just was one of those things that, sometimes you lose track of time on it, but we did have a lot of 40:34 (Tell me a little bit more about the dairy on your farm.) Well, way back there when my dad started out, we didn't milk very many cows, it was all milked by hand. Then they sold cream and then the bulk milk was hauled in to Boulder to Watts-Hardy Dairy. At one time there was another dairy called Alba Dairy. That was a blessing because you got some income. Then it progressed, and we were able to get Gene Sawhill Interview Page 9

with the gravel pit and the concrete ready mix, we were able to pour some pretty nice things out there to keep the cows up out of the mud. (For your dairy operation?) We increased the herd, I think it was up to 60 cows. But it got pretty confining when you couldn't get anybody to milk when you wanted a day off. So it was pretty hard on the family to keep going because they would need a little time off too. (Tell me, Gene, how many children did you have with Iola and their names.) Well, I had Linda, who is here. Then there's Patricia or Trish, and then Donald, and then Kathy. (And they all grew up right here?) Yes. We built the house and it wasn't as large as it is now back in 1965, something like that. (And was the train still coming through your property at that time?) Very seldom. I forgot the last time it went up the track there, but in fact it used to haul coal to Public Service over here. It was one of the biggest freight hauls that they had back in those days, in the state of Colorado. There weren't too many power plants like this. (Pretty state-of-the-art then?) Yes. It was quite a deal. Sure gave a lot of people work there at the power plant. You learned a lot too. Back in 1962 or something like that, they built a new generator there. It was what they called a V-5, Valmont Five, and I worked there until I retired. I was real fortunate to get a job and be able to go out when I did with a pretty good retirement. I think we could go back to the ditch a little bit. We should go back to that. (Sure.) You've got to hand it to the old timers, what they had to go through to get the water. 45:57 (Gene, tell us a little bit about your role as a ditch rider and how that came about. Was your dad a ditch rider?) Yes. He was a ditch rider way back in the 1930s, and I just kind of followed suit, and you learn a few things. It got down to where a lot of people didn't want to take the chores, because you've got to go to work with the water commissioner, and he tells you when you can turn the water on. And then with the users on the ditch, and it's not a big Gene Sawhill Interview Page 10

deal, but you've just got to carry on the harmony, because years ago there were farmers who thought they were entitled to more water than the other one, and how all that was worked out. Then I got in the ditch cleaning. (Yeah, tell me what does it really mean to be a ditch rider. What does that entail?) The ditch rider part is keeping the shareholders whatever they call for water, if they want water, they call me, and ask me if there's water available and then I make sure I can deliver the goods to them. (And are farmers entitled to different amounts of water or how does that work?) Yes. Nowadays there are so many shares that are sold off to more individuals, and so they don't take near the amount of water that they used to. So I just mainly make sure that there is enough water in the ditch and tell them that they can go ahead and use what they want. It isn't controlled much by measuring devices as just what they can use and what comes out of their head gate. Then we have a lateral that goes down north to the coal place and right now to Clarence Kneebone and a few other users there. There's been some conflict over that up until just recently about whether they were entitled to the water or not. I think we've pretty well got that solved. (Do you manage more than one ditch then?) Yes. Jones and Donnelly and the Butte Mill and Irrigating. (Are those like long stretches of ditch or how is that?) No. Really, from what used to be the town of Valmont, it comes down to 75th. So that's not much over a mile. And then the Jones and Donnelly, it comes back from over by Western Disposal, where they're located at, and it might be a mile-and-a-half from the head gate to where we get the water out for it. But Jones and Donnelly is quite a bit earlier water right. For the time being there is enough water running in both ditches so everybody can just draw their water off as they see fit. But to be a little greedy though, it pays pretty good. [laughs] 51:04 (Is the water running in the ditches all the time?) No. It used to, but now it goes off if there is any water to be had, it'll go off by November 1st or last October. But usually the Jones and Donnelly will stay running quite a while. It might do better here later on if they expand Gross Reservoir. But the Gene Sawhill Interview Page 11

biggest one of them is the city of Denver that has the most shares or capacity in that reservoir too. (And is that where the water for both ditches is coming from?) No. The Butte Ditch comes down from Nederland, and the other comes from the Boulder Falls up there. So we are glad right now that they say the measurable snow up above is over 100 percent. (So all of the snow pack determines how much water there is.) Then it all depends on how hot a summer you have or early run off because there's no place to store it, and down she comes, and it's picked up by other ditch companies clear down in Nebraska. (How many ditch companies are there in this area here?) Oh gosh, around here there's about 20 ditch companies. Then you get over on the St. Vrain, there's a lot more in there. They have all kinds of good names, I can't remember. Numerous ones. (The ditch riders, do they get together? Do you have any type of meetings or? We have a District Six Water Users Association which is these two, the Butte Ditch and the Jones and Donnelly are members of that. We have meetings every other month in Longmont. So at that meeting they go through a lot of the there's so much of anything legal anymore that you've got to be abreast of. So, you know, it keeps you busy, keeping out of trouble [chuckles but they have so many good managers. One of the main ones is Bob Carlson and Boyd Sheets, who is Bob's water commissioner. They take care of all the readings, and make sure that people are taking their water the way they're supposed to, and this and that. (We're going to take a short break here, Gene, to change the battery. If you'll just pause here for just a moment, okay?) [break in recording] 55:45 (I understand your family was quite active in the Valmont Presbyterian Church. Could you tell us a little bit about that, Gene?) Well, they were pretty active in it, but somehow, as communities go, there was a little bit of difficulty, and my mother had us going into Boulder Presbyterian Church. I remember going in there, Sunday school classes and that, and then finally, I guess, tensions eased off, and we went back to Valmont. Gene Sawhill Interview Page 12

My uncle Charlie commuted from Denver, either by coming up on the old bus or at one time he came right up the railroad tracks on what they called the Galloping Goose [bus converted to travel on the railroad tracks]. There was just one engine car fired by kerosene, I think, and they'd drop you off right there by the Keeter's house, and then he'd walk on in. At other times he would come in from Arapahoe, and then he'd cross over the hill, and we'd go over and meet him, at different times. I remember that I broke a window or something in the vestibule, and I had to pay for it. But other than that, I really enjoyed the old Christmas deals and especially the bags of peanuts and chocolate candy and things like that. I think that's why all the kids went to Sunday School. [laughs] (Now when did the church burn down?) About 1979. (I think we're going to take a quick pause here and change out the tape if that's okay with you.) Sure. 58:50 [End of Tape A.] [B]. 00:00 (This is part B, a continuation of the interview with Gene Sawhill which is being recorded for the Maria Rogers Oral History Program. Today is January 30th, 2011, and my name is Heidi Pate. So, Gene, let's go back to where you left off with the Valmont Presbyterian Church and breaking windows.) It's not such a good thing for kids, but I do know that as a kid I probably threw the rock that broke the window. But I remember that the south side of the church had a tendency to collect lots of flies. In fact, the janitor at times, couldn't hardly keep up with them 'cause of the heat and all that, they would just be there. Then I guess I'd go back to that candy for Christmas time and the Christmas plays. There was one time that my dad, and me, and my brother Walt I was supposed to get up and say something and I got up and I don't know how this ever happened but I had a little mule named Jack, and I put him in the barn, and he jumped through a crack. Then my Gene Sawhill Interview Page 13

brother Walt, he says he was supposed to make a joyful noise unto the Lord, but he came up with "Unto the Lord I will holler." That's about it. [laughter] But then the church burned down in 1979, and everybody was pretty well devastated but they were able to this is when the gravel company, Flatirons, donated some of the ground, and there was a lake on it. They got busy, and one of the members was an architect, and he drew up all the plans for it. Norm Lawrence was his name, and his wife and him went to church there, and they had a couple of kids. Everybody just got into it then, and for a while we were going to church down here on Isabel Road. It was old Japanese church. (That's where the congregation when while the church was being rebuilt?) Yes. And I remember Buddy and Joy would ride their bicycles down to church and then back. That's one thing you don't want to do nowadays too much, because the road's so narrow. But it was a good congregation of people working together. But when the old church burned down, at the time it wasn't a blessing, but they've been able to expand on quite a bit bigger property and have a lake. Under good leadership, they didn't let the Depression sink them under either, like some churches were struggling to keep their head above water. (Is it still quite a good-size congregation?) No, it's dwindled down quite a bit but it looks like in the last few months it's picking up a few members. They're not really a big congregation, but you have enough to keep it alive anyway. One of the best ones, he passed away not too long ago, was Stewart Strickler, and he was a professor up at the university, but he was born over in India, and he was influential with his thoughts and things like that. But he had some heart trouble and before we knew it, he was gone. 06:26 (Did they ever figure out how the original church burned down?) Yes. There was a small room back in there that had a gas heater, and there was an overstuffed chair near it and they figured out that the heat just got ( the chair started on fire?) Yes. You know, and all the wood and everything. It was probably a good thing that they didn't try you couldn't have saved it anyway. But over the course of time, like I was saying, Flatirons [Gravel Company] that was Harold Short, was quite influential in getting the property to the church and going ahead with that Gene Sawhill Interview Page 14

(So that's right near in the town of Valmont still?) Yes. So with that and my brother-in-law, Buddy Keeter, and I and lots of people donated their machinery and different things and built it up the way it is today. (So the congregation really rallied behind?) They sure did. That one place we went down on Isabel was Frank Montgomery and his wife, Stella Montgomery, were members of the Valmont church and they let us use the property down there. Over the time, it's pretty well grown up with weeds and grass, but it sure served the purpose then. So, I can't think of too much more. The old Valmont Butte was a good place to play and climb the rocks, and then I remember one time I went up there close to the where Mom and Dad lived and Joy lives now, but I went back up there, and I was going to start a fire for some reason, and there was a lot of cheat grass in there and when that stuff well, my dad always called it "gasoline grass" because it would just blow up like that and it took off, and we tried to get the fire department out there, but at that time there wasn't much in the rural area, and it was just as well to let it go and burn itself out, which it did. There was another time back there at the old place, I was working on a tractor, and I was doing some cutting with a cutting torch, and before I knew it, the whole shop was on fire, and the one guy down at the gravel pit, he had a lot of common sense,. At that time you couldn't get any fire trucks out either or they were too late, but he had those cement trucks come in filled up with water and he sprayed things down. It burnt the shop down, but at the present time Buddy and Joy built another one right on top of the old one. So everything worked out for the good. 11:35 (Gene, can you tell us a little bit about your farm operation now, and just what you're raising for livestock, and the hay operation you're working?) Well, that was back close to 1991 or something like that, we got connected up with city of Boulder Open Space, and we were fortunate enough to be able to get some of the ground they had under our lease. We raised a lot of grass hay off of that, and we also got two other areas that we run grass hay off of them. Then we had cattle on that, and right now, thanks to the wife's bookkeeping and wanting to make a good living, we've expanded the beef herd up to about 30 head. Then we take the offspring from them and grow them up. She has been fortunate enough to work out a way to get them butchered and almost double the money that we would be able to get otherwise. (And your wife's name?) Patsy. (So you have a good working relationship together on the farm, don't you?) Gene Sawhill Interview Page 15

[Laughs] She kind of has to crack the whip once in a while. 14:08 (From the hay that you mentioned, the Open Space leasing, about how many acres do you lease for your grass hay?) Well, with pasture and grass it must be about 250 acres. (Oh! Then do you go and cut the hay yourself, and where is that stored and such?) Yeah. We cut it ourselves and bale it, and it's stored right here on the property to feed the cows. Just yesterday our daughter-in-law, she went on the Internet and found some hay that this horse rescue wanted to get rid of, because the horses wouldn't eat it. So they got busy yesterday and hauled about 500 bales over here so we'll feed that to the cows and save our better hay that we can sell for a little bit more money than what we paid for this hay. In fact, we got this hay for 50 cents a bale. There was a group of work relief people from the County and they loaded and unloaded it for us. Our daughter and son-in-law, they more of less control the operation there. (Oh, I see. And what's your daughter's name?) Patricia Jean but she goes by PJ, PJ Hood, and then the son-in-law is Ron Hood. So it really has helped me out a lot because a little over two years ago, I had a by-pass operation, and I got to coughing and it broke that first operation loose, and they had to go back in and re-do it. So that was about it. 17:05 (I was going to ask you this quickly to close, from an open space standpoint, about the Sawhill ponds. Did you want to talk a little bit about how they came to be and in your family's name?) Well, they came to be from the gravel operation. My mother and dad sold them way back, to the Fish and Game Commission, and somehow the City of Boulder helped them out and is controlling most of that operation on the Sawhill Ponds. They're working out pretty good. We were able to save one pond for fishing and goose hunting. The way the weather has been there is fair goose hunting. (That's for the family, that pond, you mean?) Yeah. And the rest of it is all no hunting at all, but there's fishing and there's a lot of recreation as far as walking and people going through it and making their comments one way or the other. (Yeah, I've heard a lot of things about Sawhill Ponds. A lot of folks enjoy them from a recreation standpoint.) Gene Sawhill Interview Page 16

Yes, they do. We're trying to work out something on our pond to eventually get hay rack rides and stuff like that around it. What I would like to see some blue grass music played there. (Are you a fan of blue grass?) Oh, yes. (That's great.) I sit up about every Saturday night way late until a lot of that is over with. Something about blue grass, the singers and those musicians, they really bring it out. So, like I say, I sit up pretty late on Saturday nights to watch them. 20:12 (Is there anything else you'd like to talk about today, Gene, or cover with us?) No, but I'd like to thank you very much. (We sure would like to thank you, Gene, so much for talking with us today. We really appreciate it. I'd like to have our film focus on the family property here, the Sawhill Butte Ranch and the farmhouse at it looked in the earlier days and is still standing. Thanks again very much, Gene. It's been a pleasure.) You re welcome. 20:48 [End of Tape B. End of Interview.] Gene Sawhill Interview Page 17