Jerry Watson Interview Transcript

Jerry Watson Interview Transcript Jerry Watson: Name is Jerry Watson and I worked on the Railway Mail Service for about 11 to 12 years. INTERVIEWER: Were you a substitute or a regular? Jerry Watson: What was that? INTERVIEWER: Did you work as a sub or as a regular? Jerry Watson: Oh, okay. I started out as a sub. When you start, you don't go directly to the Railway Mail Service. You go to the airport. I worked at the Chicago Airport which is Midway Airport or you could work in the terminal and you worked there for usually a year, a year and a half until you got enough seniority to go on the trains and that's what I did. I went on the trains as a sub. INTERVIEWER: What rail lines did you work on and which locations did you travel between? Jerry Watson: I worked on the Illinois Central between Chicago, Carbondale and Memphis. And I worked on the CE&I between Chicago and Evansville, Indiana and I worked on the GM&O between Chicago and St. Louis. I did all those as a sub. When I became a regular, I worked on the Illinois Central only. INTERVIEWER: I know that you said that you worked for about 11 or 12 years as a Railway Post Office clerk. Do you remember which years you worked? Jerry Watson: Yeah. I think I started at the air field in 1955, and it was late '56 that I went on the trains, and I worked there until 1967. INTERVIEWER: What made you want to become a Railway Post Office clerk? Jerry Watson: My father was a brakeman on the Illinois Central Railroad. He associated with mail clerks because he worked the baggage car, too. When I got out of the Navy in 1954, he asked me what I was going to do for a living. I didn't know and he said, Why don't you get a job as a mail clerk? He said, That's a good job. So I applied for it and that's the reason I got it. INTERVIEWER: What types of jobs did you have on the railcars? Jerry Watson: What types of job on the railcars? Well, we had letter sorting, pouch rack sorting, we distributed bundles of letters and also they sent a lot of newspapers back in those days and they also have what they called a paper rack where you sorted newspapers going to different towns and other RPO service trains. INTERVIEWER: For any one of the jobs that you worked, could you describe a typical day on the railcar starting when you first went into work? Jerry Watson: Well, you go into work, it depends what train you were working on. Each one was a little bit different and it's usually two or three or four hours before the train left the depot. You'd go to work and different members come in different times but they're usually the initial crew. There would be several who show up at the same time. You'd have street clothes on, you'd have a grip suitcase with you, you'd change your street clothes, put your work clothes on, usually a cap and coveralls or something like that because it was pretty dirty and dusty. After you got your work clothes on, if you were working the newspaper rack, you would hang in the sacks in the racks for the newspaper distribution, or if you were working the pouch rack, you would hang the pouches. If you were working letters, all the letters were worked on one end of the car and each train was set up for different states. For instance, if it was heading south, you might be working Illinois and Kentucky and then Tennessee and Mississippi, maybe Arkansas. The cases were fixed where you could turn the label headers and you could work different states then they d start bringing the mail and you'd start sorting it out, get to work. INTERVIEWER: Did you have any type of layover on your runs? Jerry Watson: Yes. I run mostly to Carbondale, Illinois which is a little over 300 miles from Chicago. You'd go down one day or evening whichever trains you happen to be on and then you'd layover down there, most the time eight to 10 hours and then you d catch your northbound train going back. INTERVIEWER: Was there any one job that you liked doing the most? Jerry Watson: No, I think I enjoyed the whole work. I did a little bit of all of it; especially, when you re subbing you do a little bit of everything, and I enjoyed it all. INTERVIEWER: Did you ever dislike anything about any of the positions you worked and this can be just a small complaint that you brushed off to the side? Jerry Watson: The stuff I didn't like? INTERVIEWER: Yes. Such as being too dirty, no air-conditioning. Jerry Watson: No. You just learn to live with the conditions because it was hot in the summertime and maybe cool in the wintertime. But no, it didn't bother me too bad. No. 1

INTERVIEWER: What type of railcar did you work on the most? Jerry Watson: The type? Well, the days of the old wooden mail cars was gone when I started and our cars was like a baggage car only it was converted into mail use and that was just made different inside and they were steel cars. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember the length of the cars that you worked on? Jerry Watson: Most of the time, it was a 60-foot car. Occasionally, as a sub, I would work on 30-foot cars. INTERVIEWER: Did you ever happen to work on a 15-foot? Jerry Watson: A 15? No, I never did work on a 15. INTERVIEWER: When you worked on the railways, do you remember what your starting salary was? Jerry Watson: It was less than $2 an hour. Seemed like $1.70 something or $1.80 something but I'm not positive. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember what your ending salary for the railcars was? Jerry Watson: No, I don't. I don't know what it was when we ended. INTERVIEWER: But just from what you do remember about your pay, do you believe that it was fair for the amount of work that you had to do? Jerry Watson: Yes, I do. I believe it's fair because we got paid an hour s pay for every 48 minutes we worked. That was to compensate part of our time that we had to study for examinations and prepare things at home, prepare labels and stuff like that that we had to take to work with us. We had to have that done in advance. So I think that the pay was pretty fair at that time. INTERVIEWER: What did you typically carry with you in your grip while you were on trips? Jerry Watson: Okay. Well, you had a couple of changes of clothes in there plus your work clothes, an extra pair of shoes, your socks, stuff like that, coffee cup, and you'd carry a smaller bag if you carried your lunch. We'd have our revolvers; we had to wear.38s while we worked for protection of the mails. Schemes and schedules, we'd have schemes and schedules of the different trains and different states. Everybody didn't work the same state. The different people would work different states, so you had the schemes for the states that you worked and the train schedules for those dates. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember what the longest trip you ever worked was? Jerry Watson: What was that? INTERVIEWER: Do you remember the longest trip you ever worked? Jerry Watson: Oh, the longest trip? Well, probably running to Memphis. It was probably 550 to 600 miles. And when we run to Memphis, you'd go down one day and you'd go back the next. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember how many hours that took you? Jerry Watson: Let s see. That was probably an 11 to 12-hour trip each way. INTERVIEWER: While you were working as a Railway Post Office clerk, did you have a family? Jerry Watson: Yes, I was married at that time. INTERVIEWER: How did you cope with leaving your family behind on long trips? Jerry Watson: Well, the wife at that time was my first wife. She just took care of the boys and I worked. Then I'd work usually for six days and then I'd get about a week off. And then I'd go home for a week. It just became normal. INTERVIEWER: How did your family cope while you were away? Jerry Watson: Well, they did all right until after about eight years. Well, me and the first wife got divorced because I guess maybe the stress could have been too much on her. I don't know. INTERVIEWER: What were some of the things that your family did to keep themselves busy while you were gone? Jerry Watson: What they did to keep busy? INTERVIEWER: Yes. Jerry Watson: Well, I don't know really. I guess they would just -- back in those days, you stayed home quite a bit or you visited family members, or you went to the park, or went to the movies, stuff like that. INTERVIEWER: What are some of your fondest memories of working on the railroad? Jerry Watson: Oh, gosh. I just enjoyed it and I've always enjoyed my work. I can't remember if there was anything special. When we were laying over in Chicago, I would do a lot of things. I d go to the museums or science centers, art museums or walk around the park, walk around downtown Chicago. It was a lot safer than it is nowadays and just stuff like that. INTERVIEWER: Do you still keep in touch with any of the former clerks? Jerry Watson: Yes, I do keep in touch with some of them. Once a year, we have a dinner that we get together. Usually about a dozen of us get together. 2

INTERVIEWER: Did the post office ever issue you anything either for your safety or for your position? Jerry Watson: Yeah. They would supply the labels and stuff and then you had to prepare them at home. You'd have to stamp your name on the labels; you'd have to stamp your name and the train you was on, and the date but they supplied this. But then you had to do the work and get them prepared for work. INTERVIEWER: Was there anything else that they gave you? Jerry Watson: Well, they supplied the schemes, the schedules and then they'd also supply you with updates quite often and you'd have to keep them up to date. They supplied you with a gun and that's about it. Equipment, it was in the mail car that the pouches or sacks; of course, they supplied all that stuff. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Did you ever experience anything dangerous or were you ever put into a bad situation while on the railway? Jerry Watson: No. We've seen a few wrecks but we weren t actually in it. I wasn't actually in a wreck but we came close to a few of them but nothing really dangerous other than one time we had a thief in the baggage car right next to the mail car. He had a knife and was rummaging through the things. We had to stop at the first town to get the law enforcement there. That was probably the closest to anything like that. INTERVIEWER: What happened with that? Like how did he get on to the train and how did you guys find out that he was there? Jerry Watson: Usually the baggage had already -- there is more than one baggage car. And the baggage man, I think, saw him. He got in touch with the engineer or something and we stopped at the next town. But the guy, he jumped out of the train on the opposite side of the depot and took off, but then they caught him though. He went up by the engine and they caught him up there. INTERVIEWER: You said that you came close to having a couple of wrecks. Do you remember what happened? Jerry Watson: Maybe a train that was coming towards us would have a wreck. We d get down there and then we'd have to skim by real close and there would be wrecked cars. If our track wasn't damaged, we could get on by. Just train wreck that run off the tracks and they would dump cars over but we never was actually in it. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember if you ever heard of anybody who did experience anything dangerous or bad on the railway, any accidents? Jerry Watson: No. But one of our older clerks - I started out when I was pretty young - one of the older guys would tell about the time that they had a robbery and some of the clerks were shooting back and forth at the robbers. But that was 20 years before I ever started. INTERVIEWER: Did you ever hear of any other stories that may have happened before you came on? Jerry Watson: Well, I probably did but I can't remember right now. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Did you ever face or witness any type of racial discrimination on the railcars? Jerry Watson: No, I don't think so. This was back in the 50s and I know the only discrimination - not in the mail cars - but when you get to Memphis of course there was discrimination down there. But we didn't have any in the mail car, no. INTERVIEWER: Why do you think you didn't have any discrimination on the mail cars? Jerry Watson: Well, everybody just worked together. Most of our crews were Caucasian or white people. And we had a few blacks and I worked with two or three of them and they were all good people. Everybody worked together. That's the main reason, I guess. INTERVIEWER: Did you ever hear of anybody who did experience racial discrimination, maybe not on your line but on a different line? Jerry Watson: No, I didn't. Never did hear of anything like that. INTERVIEWER: Were you a member of any type of outside organizations such as a union or club that was affiliated with the railway postal clerks? Jerry Watson: Yes, we had an association but it wasn't a union. I mean, it was, but they called it an association. I belonged to that, yes. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember what it was called? Jerry Watson: No, I don't. I don't remember. We had a man that was sort of like a spirit or a president of the organization that took care most of your things but I don't remember what the name of it was. INTERVIEWER: What types of things did the association do? Jerry Watson: Back then, about the only thing -- there was no negotiations with the post office. All we could do was they would speak with our legislators in Washington and stuff like that. At one time, our congressman from 3

our district, they invited him to make a trip with us on the train and he did. The congressman really got down on the train to see what was going on. INTERVIEWER: Did the association ever advocate for anything in particular? Jerry Watson: Activate anything in particular? INTERVIEWER: Advocate. Jerry Watson: No. Just legislative things and especially when Congress would have to vote on a pay raise or something like that, they would advocate that. Yes. INTERVIEWER: Were you ever featured in any type of publication for the association? Jerry Watson: No. INTERVIEWER: Was there anything that you ever wanted to change about your position? Jerry Watson: Not that I know of. INTERVIEWER: What do you miss the most about being a Railway Post Office clerk? Jerry Watson: Well, I enjoyed the work and I enjoyed the time off. Most of the time I say if you worked a week and had a week off and back in those days, I did a lot of hunting and fishing and I enjoyed those times and with the family enjoyed those times a lot. INTERVIEWER: Then for the last question, is there any other information you would like to share with researchers about your experience or position with the Railway Post Office? Jerry Watson: Well, I don't know. When they started shutting us off, it was because of the ZIP code went into effect in the 60s and they started flying mail in airplanes a lot where they didn't work it on the trains. So everybody just went in to their local post offices. INTERVIEWER: Is that what you did? Did you go into the local post office? Jerry Watson: Yes. I went in to Centralia, Illinois. INTERVIEWER: And how did that job compare with being on the train? Jerry Watson: It was a little bit different because you had set hours, you worked five days a week and you'd work eight hours. Some of the postal clerks who were down there resented railway mail clerks coming in because we had our seniority and we made two grades more in pay than they did. They had to pay us the same rate for two years before we dropped back down to the post office salary which was a little bit lower. But I enjoyed the work there; we knew more because we worked different states and in this local post office, they didn't work different states like that. INTERVIEWER: I know that you said that when you were in Chicago and you were traveling back and forth, you walked around and you saw different sights. Was there anything in particular that stands out to you? Anything interesting that you may have seen? Jerry Watson: They had the Chicago Grant Park, got the Buckingham Fountain and that was always enjoyable. They had statues and stuff. You could go over to the aquarium, on the lake ground, you could go around the lake and watch the boats and stuff like that. And sometimes when I was in Chicago or at home, you'd have to be studying, examinations for different states that we worked and we had to make, I think it was 95 or 97 to pass and you'd have this exam about twice a year, and I learned every town in Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi and maybe Kentucky - and everybody had different states that they learned every town in those states and we d get to study those, too, sometimes when you were in your lay off. INTERVIEWER: Do you have any type of funny stories that you may have or pranks that you remember playing with the other clerks? Jerry Watson: People raised chickens and a lot of time we'd be transporting baby chickens that would be day-old baby chickens and once in a while they would get out of their boxes and if it was in summertime and you had your doors and they usually was spring time, the train doors would be open and sometimes little chicks would come walk down the aisle and they d get swooped up with air current. And another time we'd have to kick mail off at nonstop stations and this one boy or man, he kicked the mail off. He pushed and kicked at the same time and he lost his shoe. So he got upset, he took his other shoe off and of course he was two or three or 400 feet up this track at that time. He threw his other shoe away. The next night when we come back by down through there going southbound, they'd found his shoe and they put it in the pouch with the mail but he still only had one shoe because he done thrown the other away. And then we had one guy that was a little short; he was like a banty chicken. And one time, he got one of the mail pouches and sack pouches, newspaper sack and we'd put him in it and say we're going to ship him off but we finally let him out and just stuff like that. 4

INTERVIEWER: Do you have any other interesting stories that you might want to say, anything that you can remember? Jerry Watson: I can't think of nothing right now but I'm sure we had a lot of funny moments probably. I know that one fellow one time -- the porters of the trains, these were always on the passenger trains. The porters had this little stool that people stepped on to get in the train. One time there's one fellow; he sort of swiped the porter s stool and brought it in the mail car where we had boxes where they d put mail. He was short so he had to get up there and get the box, and get to put the mail in or get it out with that stool. Other than that, well, I don't know. 5