Biography Mr. James Gray Jr. was born on February 24, 1941, in Vicksburg, Mississippi. His parents were James Gray Sr. and Alice Leasy Gray. He was the older of two children. Later, the family moved to Port Gibson, Mississippi, when Mr. Gray was three years old, and Mr. Gray has lived there ever since. He was raised in a farm-like environment, with his parents living on the place of the people that they worked for. His father maintained the grounds and did the yard work while his mother did the maidservant work, such as cooking and cleaning. When Mr. Gray was old enough, he helped with feeding the animals and birds. His father and mother divorced when he was four years old. Mr. Gray joined Magnolia Missionary Baptist Church at the age of nine and has been a member ever since joining the church. Now, he is one of the deacons at Magnolia Missionary Baptist Church under the leadership of Pastor James N. Dorsey and Assistant Pastor Hugh M. Johnson. Mr. Gray went to school in Claiborne County and he attended the Archer School and the Claiborne County Training School in Port Gibson. Mr. Gray left school during his tenth grade year to work to support his mother, his sister and himself. During his young life, he had several jobs. He considered himself a dependable worker and all of his bosses liked his work. Mr. Gray completed his education with a GED. Some of Mr. Gray s major jobs include gas station attendant, auto mechanic, auto salesman, service manager and work as a self-made carpenter. Mr. Gray has also served as assistant fire chief and was then promoted to county fire chief, where he worked for twenty-five years before he retired in 2004. During the civil rights struggle, when blacks were seeking equal rights, Mr. Gray stepped up to the plate to register to vote as a citizen, but was denied the right. After the legislature stepped in and made a change in how the districts would elect officials, then Mr. Gray decided to run for office. In 1966, his first try for an elected office was unsuccessful, however, he was encouraged to try again. Then, in 1967, he ran for office of election commissioner and he won. Mr. Gray has been an elected official of Claiborne County since being elected, now approaching forty years, the longest-held elected office in Claiborne County and in Mississippi. In 1999, Mr. and Mrs. Gray bought property and developed a mobile home park. Since his retirement, Mr. Gray and his wife have worked together at the Mobile Home Rentals as owner and landlord. Mr. Gray is married to Janice Walker Gray of Hermanville, Mississippi. Together they have four children and four grandchildren. Currently, Mr. Gray is helping with the building of a new Magnolia Missionary Baptist Church in Port Gibson, Mississippi.
Table of Contents Background, family...1 Staying with grandparents...2 Starting school...4 Claiborne County Training School...5 Sports...5 Hunting and fishing...6 Childhood chores...8 Mother s occupation...9 Picking up hay...10 Working at Torrey s Gin...12 Ginning cotton...14 Working for car companies...17 Father s background...18 Boycotts...20 Registering to vote...23 Becoming an election commissioner...24 Getting involved with the fire department...26 Getting jaws of life...28 Staying calm at accident scenes...30 Decision to get a GED...32 Children...33 Future of Claiborne County...34 Earliest memories of church...34 Joining the church, baptism...35 The Blue Hole...35 Listening to the radio...38 Getting a bicycle...39 Christmas...40
AN ORAL HISTORY with JAMES GRAY This is an interview for the Mississippi Oral History Program of The University of Southern Mississippi. The interview is with James Gray and is taking place on May 29, 2002. The interviewer is David Crosby. Crosby: This is David Crosby. Today is the twenty-ninth of May, 2002, and I m in the office of Fire Chief James Gray to conduct an interview for the Claiborne County Oral History Project. Chief Gray, do I have your permission to conduct this interview? Gray: Sure does. Crosby: OK. You were telling me earlier that you don t remember your father, that he left when you were very young. Gray: Yeah, he and my mother separated when I was about two years old. Crosby: Where were you living then? Gray: In Vicksburg, [Mississippi]. Crosby: In Vicksburg, [Mississippi]. Gray: Uh-huh. Crosby: And then before you went to Vicksburg, do you know where your parents were living? Gray: [My parents were] living out at Lacashe, [near Tillman]. Mr. Gage paid them well, he had a farm, and [my daddy] worked. They called, at that time instead of supervisor, they called it WPA [Works Progress Administration], [that s what Mr. Gage did,] where they worked on the road, and they d cover that area. Every [WPA] supervisor, every one of them had their own district, and they had gravel trucks. And he did that during the day when he got off from the county, then he went to work over on the man s farms, tending to his chickens and just whatever. [My daddy drove the trucks during the day. After working hours on the road, my daddy fed the chickens and cows.] Crosby: Lacashe, is that Gray: That s out on [Highway 547, off] Tillman Road.
2 Crosby: Tillman Road from Pattison, [Mississippi]? Gray: Right, right, [before Pattison, Mississippi]. Crosby: OK, I noticed they got a big subdivision up in there. Gray: Yeah, but it was further across the little bridge, just past the Pine Grove [Road]. It was to your left, there; you could see it by the big arch where they drove into the big place, big farm. Crosby: They had an arched gate there. Gray: Uh-huh, [the arch read Lacashe. ] Far as I know, it might be still there; it was a long time ago. Crosby: Uh-huh. And that was owned by Mr. Drake I mean, excuse me, Mr. Gage? Gray: Yeah, that s right, Mr. Gage, uh-huh. I m not sure; I think he said his name was Burton Gage. I m not positive about that, but he was a big, big man. Crosby: And what are some of your earliest memories of growing up? Do you remember living in Vicksburg? Gray: No. Crosby: So after Vicksburg you came back to Port Gibson and Claiborne County? Gray: Yeah, my mother, my grandparents were here in Claiborne and Port Gibson. So, my mother moved. Well, we came back and forward and visited with them, and my mother still worked up there [for the Drakes]. And she moved back here when I was about three and a half, [not] four years old [yet]. Crosby: Do you remember your grandparents? Gray: Oh yeah, I remember them real well. Crosby: Uh-huh, and you used to stay with them occasionally? Gray: Uh-huh. Crosby: What are some of your earliest memories of staying with your grandparents? Gray: Well, I remember my grandfather and grandmother; they used to live out around Pattison. And my grandfather had an old mule; they called her Belle. And he
3 used to, had a slide. Oh, we d haul watermelons out the fields when I was a little boy. I could never pick up nary one, but I could eat the devil out of them. (laughter) I enjoyed it out there on the farm. He boiled corn, and we just had a big time. I loved it. Crosby: You say he had a slide. Gray: [He used] some old wood boards, [is how he made a slide; he hooked it] behind the mule, and she d dragged it through the field, and I d be on it, sitting on the back of it. Crosby: Uh-huh. Piled watermelons on it? Gray: [He] piled watermelons up on it, right, bring them up to the house. Yeah, we enjoyed it. Crosby: So, you like working on the farm? Gray: I liked it there because I didn t have to do nothing but ride and eat. (laughter) Crosby: He just dragged you. Gray: Yeah. Crosby: Do you remember, did your grandfather have his own farm or was he on somebody else s place? Gray: No, he worked for somebody else. No, he never did own his own farm. Crosby: And do you remember who he was working for? Gray: No, I don t. That s a long, long time ago. I don t remember who s place they were living on. But I know it was in Pattison, before you get out there, near, just before you get to Pattison. I think they called that school that was out there the Mount Burner School at that time, but it was on that road before you get to Pattison. Crosby: On Highway 547? Gray: Yeah, uh-huh, right where you went on 547 there, called Pattison Road, I guess. (laughter) Crosby: Somewhere around where Mercy Seat is? Gray: No, it was a good bit further on towards Pattison, a good bit further on towards Pattison.
4 Crosby: OK. Gray: Um-hm. Crosby: And then do you remember when you started school? Gray: Well, yeah, I kind of remember a little bit about it because I know I had to walk to school. And when I started school, there was a man, I m not sure of his first name, but they called him the last name of Stamps. He owned a restaurant and a club across the bridge over here. He transported teachers to work out there, and Mama would pay him to pick me up and carry me when I was five, six years old, to carry me to school till I got big enough to be able to walk. We were living at Mr. Bob Drakes s(?) place. I had to walk out to Archer School, and it was real gravel and dirt. [Mr. Stamps] would pick me up and take me in, bring me back [from school]. Crosby: What was the name of the place that he had, Mr. Stamps? Gray: I think they called it Stamps Playhouse; I m not sure. He had a bar, diner, and all. I ve heard about it; I never would go over there where it was, but anyway it used to be over there, right across that old bridge. Crosby: OK. Gray: Uh-huh. Crosby: And tell me where the Archer School was. Was it right on the Pattison Road? Gray: Yeah, it was right on the Pattison Road, oh, I guess a block and a half from the old Archer s [Railroad] Crossing, [at that time it was an old] road that used to come through there. It wasn t where it is now. [A portion omitted at interviewee s request.] Crosby: OK. Gray: Yeah, [the school was located near the Disharoon home]. Crosby: About where Ben Disharoon stays now? Gray: Yeah, it s back this side of Ben Disharoon. Crosby: Uh-huh. Gray: [Off Highway 547, about a block from] Ben Disharoon[ s home]. Where the bridge is [nearby] Ben Disharoon.
5 Crosby: Yeah. Gray: Before you get to Ben, going from here, before you get to Ben, there s another branch. You might not pay attention, but there s another old branch that crosses right before you get to the bridge, and it was just this side of that branch is the back of the church. And Archer School, [which] was a church house, [where the] school and church [took place]. Crosby: And how big a school was it? Gray: Oh, it wasn t very big. I d roughly guess we had twenty-five or thirty [children], all the whole school from primer through the sixth grade. [School] used to go to eighth grade, and it [was lowered] to the sixth grade. You d finish sixth grade, then they d send you to seventh grade over at Claiborne County [Training Center]. Crosby: OK, was it a one-room school? Gray: It was a one-room school, and they [used] a bunch of grass sacks of material [to make] a curtain to go across the middle of [the room]. And one teacher on one side would have so many children and then so many class-grades. The other one on the other side would have some. During that time our teacher s name was Miss Pearlie B. Dotson when I first started to school. Then when I got passed on up, I think [my teacher was] Miss Hattie Wilson. She was on the other side of the curtain. Crosby: And they stayed there the whole time you were there? Gray: Yeah, those same teachers was there all the while I was there, uh-huh. Crosby: And then you came on over to Claiborne County [Training School]. Gray: Claiborne County, yeah, I came to Claiborne County Training School then. Well, let s see, my first teacher, and now I m trying I know Miss Watson was one, but I m not sure of my homeroom teacher during that time, but I had more than one teacher then. When I got over here, I had more than one teacher for my classes. Crosby: Uh-huh. Do you remember who the principal was then? Gray: I think it was [E.W.] Reeves. I m not sure. [Yes,] I think his name was E.W. Reeves. Crosby: Did you play any sports when you were in school? Gray: No, [but I] played softball across over in front of the school and basketball on the school grounds. I wasn t good at either one of them, so I didn t count them. (laughter) I never could hit the ball, but if I ever accidentally hit it, I made a home
6 run. I could put it further than anybody else in my class, but I d miss it more than I hit. Crosby: So you were a power hitter. Gray: Oh, I could hit it. They would say, Oh, let him hit it. If he hits it, we re going to win. They d be betting on me, but I always missed [and] I d always let them down. (laughter) Crosby: Well, I was just the opposite. I was a singles hitter. (laughter) Gray: Really? Good. Crosby: Yeah, just slap at the ball, you know, and run like hell. (laughter) Gray: That s all right. Crosby: When you lived out in the country then, did you ever go fishing or hunting or anything like that? Gray: Yeah, well, I used to, whenever I got old enough to go. And my mother used to go fishing all the time when we were living on Mr. Bob Drakes s [place] until I was, I guess I must ve been about nine or ten years old when they moved over to [Mr. and Mrs. Charles and Nancy Barland s place] across the road. Mr. Bob Drakes had a little pond down there, and we used to take a sheet of tin and make our own boats. And my sister and all of us we d go out there, and we didn t care if we d catch anything or not; we d have fun just there in the water. Crosby: Uh-huh. Gray: But now, when my mama let me have a gun, I had a BB gun during that time, but I would never shoot a gun. But after I got I think about twelve or thirteen years old, and my mama bought me a single-barrel shotgun. I ve still got it. Crosby: Is that right? Gray: Yeah, ain t been shot in about thirty-five or forty years, but I ve still got it. (laughter) My first gun; only gun I still own. Crosby: And what would you hunt with it? Gray: I d hunt squirrels; like over at Mrs. [Barland s], up there in those pecan trees, it was droves of squirrels. And so that s the only thing I would hunt, squirrels. I never was able to shoot a rabbit; I ve tried, but I never would hit the rabbit. (laughter) But I could get a squirrel pretty good if he d stand still long enough, [and] if he was
7 running, I didn t never get [him]. I ain t never been deer hunting. I never did want them. Crosby: And when you were when you got a squirrel, would you take them home? Gray: Oh yeah, my mama would clean him; my mama taught me how to clean him. And I could clean [them] and I d gut [them]. When I had done it, she d cook them, and they re great. Just don t have much meat on those little bones, but they re tough. At that time I had good teeth; I could chew him up. (laughter) Crosby: Did you do anything with the hide of the squirrel? Gray: No, we didn t do anything with those, mm-mm. We d throw them out down the hill, and I reckon the dogs or whatever got them, [enjoyed them]. Crosby: Yeah, I would guess. Gray: Mm-hm. Crosby: So, you didn t play any sports at Claiborne County [Training School], though? Gray: No, at Claiborne County, I didn t play any sports over there. They tried to get me to play, but I didn t. They didn t have a lot of sports going on during those times. We didn t have a lot to do, but we played basketball and that kind of stuff. Now, at home in the evenings, we had our own baseball [game] down there at Mrs. [Barland s]. So regularly we played; we d go down there and play each other, but there in the school, I never did do nothing. Crosby: Was it organized? I mean, were you a team? Gray: Well, we had just neighbors down there, a bunch of kids, just eight or ten of us there and played certain ones. Sometimes didn t even have enough to make up a whole team, and we d play against each other, because everybody [together] would either pick out who [was] going to be the head of [the team] that day. [He decided] who he wanted to play on his side, and then whoever was left had to go on the other [team]. Crosby: Uh-huh. Gray: Yeah, and he [the team leader] always picked the best ones, and I always was left to go on the other [team], because I could never hit [the ball]. (laughter) Crosby: So they let one guy choose his side first. Gray: [Yes], and he d always choose the best ones.
8 [A portion omitted at interviewee s request.] Crosby: So you were always on the losing side. Gray: I was always on the losing side; anyway, I was there. Crosby: Did you have brothers and sisters? Gray: I have one sister; I never had a brother, only one sister. She and I are close still. Crosby: Did you have chores to do when you were a kid? Gray: Oh yes, indeed. See, at home I had to cut all the wood [and bring] in all the water. See, we didn t have [any] running water in the house; we had to tote the water from up to the white people s house down to our house. And cut wood, because mama had to cook on a wood stove, so we had to have wood for to cook with year round and keep warm with, too. And had to do the wash[ing], had to build a fire under it to heat the water. So we had plenty chores. [Back] then we raised [chickens], Mama had chickens and had a hog or two on a chain, and I used to have to tote water for them [and] feed them. So I had a lot to do, with me being the only boy. (laughter) Crosby: So your sister didn t have to do things. Gray: She would clean up in the house, wash dishes and iron clothes. Anytime that we could iron, we had a iron that we d heat by the fireplace for the heat or [on] the stove; [it was] wood, didn t have an electric iron. Didn t have electric lights for many years. So we didn t have anything electric. Then when we moved to Mrs. Nancy and Mr. Charles Barland s, [they] ran a line from [their] house down to our house so we d have electricity, and we felt like we were in [high] heaven then. (laughter) I could see my lessons then. Crosby: What did you use for light before you got electricity? Gray: Kerosene lamps. Crosby: Uh-huh. Gray: Oh, yeah. Crosby: When you were getting your lessons, you d use a kerosene lamp? Gray: Right, that s all we had, uh-huh. And then Mama would holler for us to, Try to get done early before it gets dark so you won t strain your eyes. By the time I d
9 get through with doing all my chores, it d be dark anyway. But after we got electric lights, she didn t have to tell us that because we could read night or day then. Crosby: And at that time your mother was working as a domestic for Gray: [Yes, for] Mrs. Nancy Barland. Crosby: Mrs. Barland. Gray: Uh-huh. Crosby: And did she cook and Gray: Yep, yep, cooked, washed, ironed, whatever, [cared for] Flo and Charlie; she had a girl and a boy, [named] Charlie Barland and Flo Barland. Crosby: Uh-huh. And did she keep pretty long hours there? Gray: Well, she d go and cook breakfast, and then after then, she d clean up. She would cook lunch and clean up behind that. Then most times she d come home about 1:30, 2:00 [p.m.]. [Later she would] go back to work or go somewhere else. And then she d come home, and then go to cleaning up and cooking at home, trying to get something ready for us. Sometimes Mrs. Nancy [Barland would] have [more than] enough food, and Mrs. [Barland] would let her bring food home and she didn t have to cook; she could go and do some other things. Then when Mrs. [Barland] wanted to go play volleyball or whatever at night, then she [Mama] would keep the children, go up there and keep the children at night. Sometime we d go up there and keep the children, Edna or myself. So we were raised up with Charlie and Flo; so we re all real close still, [as] part of the family. Crosby: Uh-huh. When you were at Archer School, did you have to do any work there like cutting wood? Gray: At the school, yeah. When I got big enough, I had to cut wood. And before I got big enough to cut wood, the bigger boys would cut the wood, but the little ones, we had to go tote it in. And see, we didn t have [any] running water there either; we drank water out of the creek. We d get a bucket, go down to the creek and get it full of water. They had an old building they called a locker, where they had old books and stuff in. We d carry it there; the girls could go there and drink water, and we d bring the water up there to it. And the teachers brought their water from home, but we didn t have any running water either. Crosby: You said that your family got its water from Barland s? Gray: Yeah, from Mrs. Barland s house and Mr. Bob Drake s house before we ever got [inside water.]
10 Crosby: Was that well water? Gray: No, it was inside from faucet. Crosby: It was on a faucet. Gray: Tap water, uh-huh. Crosby: But you had to tote it real far? Gray: Yeah, we had to, over at Mr. Bob Drake s, we had to tote it at least two blocks, the pails of water. And over at Mrs. Nancy [Barland s], we didn t have a block to tote it; it wasn t far from hers. Hers, I guess 250 feet, 300. Crosby: You mentioned chickens and a hog. Did your mother ever have a cow? Gray: No, she never had any cows, unh-uh. Crosby: So, did you ever do any farm work, like plowing or Gray: No, I never plowed. I tried to pick cotton, and my mama got so tired of me wasting time after trying to pick, but I could never get it. I picked hard at it all day long and come up with sixty and seventy pounds, so I said that wasn t for me. (laughter) I never could pick any cotton, but I d haul hay with Mr. Ben and Lindsay Disharoon for years and that kind of stuff. I could pick up a bale of hay. Crosby: Lindsay, that was Nancy Rie [Barland] s brother? Gray: Uh-huh, he just recently passed. Uh-huh, yep. Crosby: So, you would do that as day labor? You d get paid by the day? Gray: Yeah, uh-huh. They d pay me; the pay was a dollar and a half a day. Then the bigger I got, the more they went to paying me. I think I wound up getting about $3 a day before I stopped doing it. [I picked up] hundreds of bales of hay a day. Crosby: So, was he feeding that to his own cows? Gray: Uh-huh. Crosby: They must ve used those square bales. Gray: Right, those square bales. [They did not use] round bales [in] those days; all of [them were] just square. And depends on the way they cut the grass. They had some
11 much heavier than the others because the grass was more greener or more heavier or whatever. Crosby: I put up a little hay in my time. Gray: You did? Crosby: Picking up some of those bales was Gray: Some of them was a lot heavier than the others. Crosby: a trip. Yeah. Gray: Yeah. (laughter) Crosby: Getting them up onto that flatbed was not always Gray: Yeah, right, right. Crosby: easy. Gray: Right. And that s the same way when you stack them [up] and you put them on a [trailer]. First you d put them on low [bed], and they keep getting stacked up higher and higher, and you have to throw them way up there [into the barn]. Crosby: Yeah. (laughter) Gray: And same way in the barn, you can stack them there, start low on up, but after a while, you got to throw them way up there [in the barn]. Crosby: They didn t have one of those Gray: Lifter, no, we didn t have nothing like that, [back in those days]. (laughter) Crosby: There s still a silo standing out there, I think, on the Pattison Road somewhere. I don t know, I just have an image in my mind of an empty silo Gray: Oh really? Crosby: sitting right there in that field. Gray: Really. Probably so, then, because most people had them during those times, yeah. That s where the sweet feed and stuff was in those, the grain. Crosby: Would they blow that stuff up in there then?
12 Gray: I don t know. I never had experience on that, never had to deal with one of those. Crosby: OK. Well, after you got out of Claiborne County Training School, you say you went through ten grades, you were promoted to the eleventh, but you quit to work. Gray: [Yes,] I quit and went to work. Crosby: And you started working at a gin. Is that right? Gray: Right, Torrey s Gin. Crosby: Torrey s Gin, and tell me where that was again. Gray: That [was] right behind the Claiborne County Health Department off of Market Street. Crosby: So that would ve been real close to the railroad tracks. Gray: Yeah, well, the railroad tracks were right back there by the [cotton house, where] there used to be a warehouse behind there, right beside of the railroad tracks. The railroad tracks passed right through by the depot, where the depot is now, by the Port Gibson Hardware and Lumber Company. Yep. We d gin the cotton, and then we d carry it up there, and they had a big old warehouse [to store bales of cotton]. They had a big, old, long [wood] building [used for a warehouse for bales of cotton. It] caught afire one time [by] a bale of cotton. [The warehouse] burned up, and burned up a whole lot of [bales of] cotton. Crosby: You say it went through heat? Gray: [We] would assume some of it went through a heat or whatever. The cotton was green cotton, and some of it went through a heat. But when cotton gets hot, cotton catch afire easy. Crosby: Just like hay? Gray: Uh-huh, [yes, if it] go through a heat. Crosby: Spontaneous combustion? Gray: Yeah, right. Crosby: And so you had a whole warehouse going? Gray: Yeah, a whole [lot of cotton, a] big warehouse right there where the Port Gibson Hardware and Lumber Store [is now,] with that stuff on the east side of that
13 building. It was a great, big, old, [gin] about four or five times as big as that one. And it burned down, and they built that [gin again]. Crosby: So, what was your job at the gin? Gray: I was a ginner. When they first carried me there, they had me in the truck trying to suck cotton out the truck, and I wasn t doing too good at that. My granddaddy had carried me down there, trying to teach me how to work. Crosby: Was that a big vacuum hose or something? Gray: Yeah, a big, old pipe, big, old vacuum pipe, set down there and suck the cotton up. I had a fan pulled up by the truck and carried it up through the machines and gin it. Crosby: Uh-huh. Gray: And my grandfather, that was his job, and he did real well at that. So Mr. Torrey, over there, I think the man named Sam Mails(?), an old, old fellow; he was about seventy-five or eighty years old at that time, but anyway he was getting ready to get out. He had got old and slow, but he was a ginner, [so my] grandfather said, Well, you want to go up there and see if he can teach you how to gin? I said, Yeah. So, I went up there, and he helped me because I did [go to him and] I was young then, and I was itching to do something and wanted to pay attention. I paid attention and learned, and so I got it [down well]. And then Sam Mails, he finally left after that year, and I took over, and I was a ginner. I ginned for several years there. Crosby: Well, that must take some mechanical ability to do that. Gray: Yeah, well, it [did], yeah. And during that time they were selling cotton. You could gin your cotton today, and you could sell it today. And [well,] some of them, Mr. Ellis [and other] different stores. But anyway, at that time they called it you got a sample. When you cut a bale of cotton, you got a sample. And when you would gin it, you d cut them and give them a sample out of it, and they carried up to town and sell it to whoever paid the [most]. You carry it to this store, and that man say, I give you ten cent a pound for it. He went to the next man, and he said, I give you twelve cent a pound for it. Well, that s the way you sold your cotton. The [gin] fellow sold that cotton. But, now, during the time that I was doing it at the gin, I had Sam Ellis taught me how to gin the cotton, and the people that bring some of the people [from the Port Gibson Oil Works Gin wanted] some of them to bring some cotton to the Port Gibson Oil Works Gin. And everybody found out afterwards that they d [rather] bring their cotton to the Torrey Gin that they got [paid] more per pound for it. So of course I was running [that gin in quality results,] and the man [president] from the oil mill [and other] people came around there several times; they wanted to see how, and what I had my gin set on and how close the saws were cutting into the seeds and that kind of stuff. And they couldn t ever figure out what [I was doing]. I was just smart enough
14 to not let them find out all my secrets. (laughter) And they d go back and set [their gin], and yet people were leaving them and coming around there to buy, to get their cotton ginned [at] the Torrey Gin. And sometimes [loads of] cotton would be all the way up [town] to about Jitney Jungle trying to get there. And [I would] go out to that gin, go down to the oil mill gin, and they wouldn t have but a few [customers] there. And Mr. C.Y. Katchemeyer and, I think, Mr. Lorman Anderson everybody called him Red Anderson they was the [president and vice-president] over at the old Oil Mill and Gin. And they wanted to buy me [to work for them]. They came around and talked to me about paying so much more if I d come work for them, and I wouldn t go. I wanted to stay down there with my granddaddy. And they went and talked to Mr. [John] Lindsey Torrey, [asking to trade me. We all laughed about it.] Mr. Woodrow Tullos, he was over it, and they tried to get [me to leave], but said, We want to trade men with you. And I said, No, I ain t going to go. I d quit first. (laughter) So they kept on and kept on. See, everybody was coming to where they d get more for the cotton, you see, and they couldn t ever figure out my secret. They paid me to go around there and set their gins around there, where they could [set it as our gin]. I went around [to their gin and set it] and got the little money, and I went around and [played with theirs], but I didn t never get them like where I had [ours] because these are tighter. Crosby: Uh-huh. Gray: And the roll was tighter and [cleaner]. So the people at Port Gibson Oil [Mill] decided well, after the man, Ed Barland, died, they said, Well, I ll get you. I ll buy the gin. So he bought the gin. (laughter) So, they bought me after all. (laughter) And they bought the gin and tore it down. (laughter) Crosby: I ll be darned. Gray: And the gin, all the machines that I had over here [at Torrey s Gin], they installed them in that [Oil Mill] gin [over there]. And I went with them; so there they got me, bought me after all. (laughter) Crosby: Well, do you think it was the machines or the person that was operating it? Gray: No, it wasn t exactly the machines; it was knowing how to tighten, how tight a roll to have; that s what it was. And I didn t ever [want to] sell all my secrets, but I could tighten up on it, and I could [gin it]. See, the longer your cotton pulls before it breaks, that s what they paid you by. And how white it was, that s what they paid you by. And mine was that way, [and they] couldn t believe it. Crosby: Could you give me just a quick description of, you know, after the cotton got sucked up out of the wagon or the truck, it would go right to the ginning machine? Gray: [Well], it would go through some heaters, some big, old thing they called a heater, and you turn the heat up, and that makes it dry because some of [the cotton is
15 moist] and damp, got dew on it. And that would dry it. [The cotton would go] through that thing, [and it would come out], and sometimes you had to run it around there, circle around a couple of times and dry it out before you could gin it. And it depend on how much heat s in it, you just had a thermostat; you could turn it up as you wanted. The wet cotton, some of it got wet in the truck before it got there, [I d] turn up the heat [to] high and dry it out, and then you gin it. If you did gum it up [it] wouldn t go through your gin right, it choked it out, and you [had] to keep taking it out and cleaning [the gin] out. Crosby: What exactly would the gin do? Gray: It would separate the lint from the seeds. Crosby: It would take the lint from the seeds. Gray: Lint from the seeds, uh-huh. And see, the seeds go over in the seed house and the lint go down to the press, and press it down then bale it up. Crosby: And you had to keep adjusting something. Gray: Well, yeah, [I would] get it set like [I] want it, [I] didn t have to bother it no more. [I] could keep it pretty much set. And then [I] walk through and see one and check them, and see one that wasn t tight enough, [I] tighten it up a little tighter. Or if one is too tight, [I would] slack off a little bit. See, when [you re] cutting the cotton, you don t want to get it too close to the seeds because it ll pull that black husk off the seeds and the cotton, then your cotton don t sell [for] much. And you don t want to put too much heat on it because the heat makes it break quicker. So, [I] had to know what [I] was doing. And then I would [check] my cotton myself sometimes; I d pull my samples, and maybe I d go over there [to] catch some of that lint coming through, pull it and look at it and see what it looked like. If it was a inch, inch and a quarter, whatever [before breakage], then I d know how to go ahead and set it, because I wanted everybody to get, you know, the best. I wanted everybody to get the best. And everybody was real pleased. Crosby: And then the lint, when it was free from the seed Gray: It went into a big, old thing [that] pressed it, and then run that [through the] thing up and make a bale, a big, old bale out of it. Crosby: Uh-huh. Gray: And then put bands around it and roll it out. Weigh it and put a tag on it. Crosby: OK. And then how would you get the sample from a bale?
16 Gray: Well, after we make the bale up, then you had a knife, a big, old knife with a hook in it. You cut the bag and pull some of it out, and then had some paper, and you wrap it up like you did meat, brown paper wrap around it. You wrap around it and put a piece of tape around it. And the man carried the big [sample] of cotton uptown and sold it. Now, the big farmers, they didn t do that. They, most of the big farmers, they sold to some other company; they didn t go uptown and sell it as soon as they ginned it. But the little fellows, more little fellows during that time, and they sold theirs the same day and got the money, or got their share of the money or whatever. Sold the seeds the same day they ginned the cotton. And most of the time the seeds will pay for the ginning of your cotton. And before we got through ginning cotton, the seeds got [cheaper, because the machine picked the cotton] and then you had to pay more for them ginning of your bale of cotton. [The machine picking cotton was not as clean as the hand picked cotton.] Crosby: And where would the seeds go after that? Gray: They d go; they had a big, old house, and they d go in a [storage] house. The blower put them over in there [in the storage house]. And when it was that Torrey Gin, we had to pick them up out of the [seed house and put seeds] in a truck [to] carry them over there to the oil mill and sell them. They paid so much a pound for the seeds. Crosby: So they would get oil out of them. Gray: Right, right. They did the same thing they do with them now; they press them and get oil, and make different foods and chemicals and stuff out of them. Crosby: So, this elderly man that showed you how to gin, he did you a pretty big favor. Gray: [He] did me a big favor. Proud of him. He did a good job. He knew something. He had been doing it for many, many year. He knew just what to do and how to do it. Crosby: I assume he was a black man, too? Gray: [Yes,] he was a black man. Crosby: Now, you said that was seasonal work, right? Gray: Yeah, right. Crosby: You only did that during harvest time. Gray: Yeah, when I was over to the Torrey Gin, it was only seasonal work there then. After the gin closed down in January, mid-january, first of February, then we didn t
17 have anything to do until the next August or September. And they d go there and sharpen their saws and all that kind of stuff, getting ready for the next time. In the meantime, you had to find something else to do. [The owner] kept on talking about, say, Well, I ll give you a full-time job around here. So I [ended] up getting a fulltime job, and he was making sure he could keep me and kept up with me then because then if I would go somewhere else, I might not come back. So he wanted to [keep me] so they gave me a full-time job. So I worked as a millwright with Fred Johnson. Fred Johnson, I, Woodrow Tullis and Edgar Cane, we worked there on the machines year round down there. When the oil mill closed down, we still had jobs to do. We d put in bearings, new parts, and [et cetera], redoing parts and that kind of stuff; so I had a full-time job. Crosby: And you basically did you learn those skills on the job? Gray: Yeah, well, I didn t know too much about millwrighting at that time, but I learned along with Fred Johnson and all of them. I got to be, I got pretty good. Crosby: But you didn t have any vocational schooling. Gray: No, uh-uh, [I] didn t. Crosby: Well, I understand you also worked as a mechanic and a salesman for some car companies. Gray: Yeah, I worked at several different car companies. I started out at Seawrights and worked there during the time when the gin s time was over with. Crosby: And where were they located? Gray: Up on Highway 61 North, right where they have this pet and feed food store in that area. The son run the service station, and the daddy ran the car lot. Crosby: Uh-huh. Gray: Richard Hicks and myself worked up there for them several different times. And when the gin closed, I [opened] this car lot and go there. I worked Seawright [Sales] one time; I went to drive, worked for Smith when he had a Chevrolet place here then. Well, then they had a Chevrolet James Smith worked [there] at the Chevrolet place. His brother had a restaurant the other side, south of the Chevrolet place. And over there where the post office is now, used to be a Texaco Service Station. And I worked at the service station because Smith, Michael Smith had some cars over there, and I worked on his cars, worked there selling and changing oil and fixing flats. We did so well with the cars, he decided he would go in a bigger business down by the old where the Our Mart store is now, used to be City Garage years ago, and they had done closed down the one there. So Mr. Smith rented that, so I could work on cars, rain or shine then. And we worked kept his cars in good shape and
18 redid motors, whatever we need to do, [also,] worked on other people s cars, too. When the man didn t have nothing else to do, and he wanted somebody that wanted to work, so I did that. Crosby: Well, had you worked on cars when you were younger? Gray: I started working well, I experienced on my owns. My mama bought me a car, and I think it was about a [19]47 Chevy, and I d work on it and fix it. Tear it up, stop it from running and then go back and keep playing with it till I get it fixed. Sometime I couldn t get it back; I had to get somebody else to work, but I experienced on my owns. Crosby: Uh-huh. Gray: And then my neighbors, they went to getting old cars. And other young people, youngsters didn t have [any] money, and anybody that could work on one, they d do the work on it. So I kept on till I got, with God s help, I got to where I could do good, and I did extra good for years. Crosby: When you started out you were what they called a shade-tree mechanic? (laughter) Gray: I didn t have a shade tree sometimes. (laughter) Because I d go anywhere. Yeah, but I worked on those. Got to working on cars and experiencing and learning things about cars, and did real well and worked on them for many years. Crosby: Let me take you back a minute because we kind of skipped it at the beginning. You told me before we started the tape that your father had come here from Shreveport, Louisiana. Gray: Yeah, [from] over in Houma, Louisiana, over in that area, I think. He was with a little show, go around, [carnival with] different activities. I hadn t never saw one. I don t know what kind of activities they had. Buy anyway, I guess they had clowns, or whatever they was doing, but anyway he was [with them.] Called them Rabbit Foot. I think the name of the show was the Rabbit Foot. Crosby: Uh-huh. In fact, that was owned by Mr. Wolcott. Gray: Yeah, I guess [so], I think that s what my mama said, uh-huh, something like that. But anyway, he lived here in Claiborne County, whoever the man was, and he would put up his sideshow down there behind the old Lightfoot s Cleaners [Building] where they had a big, old building back there used to store the stuff till season time and go back out again. And my daddy came here, and I guess my mama went to the show or wherever, and I m not sure how they met, anyway. But anyway, when the show came up here, and they showed the show here, the last time they showed the
19 show, he showed it here; then he put it up and let it stay here, and tore it down and put it in the buildings until time to go out the next fall. Crosby: I see. Gray: My daddy was here and didn t have a job. So he got in touch with, I guess, Mr. Gage or somebody. I don t know how they got together, [he] with her. But anyway, [he] and [she] got married, and then they [ended] up out there at Mr. Gage s, out at Lacashe, and he worked out there for several years. Mr. Gage was the [one over the district.] My mama, [she] said she don t remember them calling him a supervisor; said everybody said they re working for that WPA. I think that s what she said they used to be called [then]. Crosby: That was a Depression-era federal program that was designed to employ people that were unemployed. Gray: Oh, [yes]. Crosby: They did a lot of road building. Gray: OK. Crosby: You know that bridge over Little Bayou Pierre? Gray: Uh-huh. Crosby: It was probably built by the WPA. Gray: Oh, really? Crosby: It looks a lot like an old WPA bridge. Gray: Really? (laughter) I wasn t aware of that. OK. But anyway, he did whatever they was doing there, and then when they would knock off there, he would go to Mr. Gage s home and farm and work around [there] feed[ing] the chickens, and whatever he had to do around there, and keep the house yard clean. And my mother worked as the housewife, and she was in[side]. She would [at]tend to the washing and [cooking for] Mrs. Gage and them in the home. They lived out there in a little, old house out behind, out back on that same place. Crosby: So, it s your understanding that your father saw this show over in Louisiana and just decided to go with them. Gray: Yeah, he [said he] wanted to run away from home since his mother had been dead for years, and he had a stepmama, and he didn t never get along with her real well. So after the show, he was helping to put the show together there, and then he
20 holping them tear it down. He asked them could he go with [them]. And they told him yeah, if he wanted to. So, he followed them on around wherever. He said they went to several [towns], my mama say, he say he went to several more towns before he ever got into Port Gibson. So I don t know how many times they showed it [here in Port Gibson]. Crosby: Yeah, uh-huh. Gray: [Here in] Port Gibson was the last show for that season. Crosby: Now, there was a man named Teenabit Hackworth who was the electrician for that show. I don t know if you even knew him. Gray: I ve heard of him. I [didn t] know him, but I ve heard of him. Crosby: (inaudible) Gray: Really? Crosby: Mrs. Hackworth died just this past Gray: Yeah, that s right. I was fixing to say she hasn t been long died. I remember that. Crosby: So, I would guess that your daddy probably worked alongside Mr. Hackworth. Gray: I m pretty sure he did, yeah, because my daddy was an electrician, too. He could do electrical work; he could run [it and] do a lot of electrical stuff. Crosby: OK, well, back to the car lots and you were telling me about you were working somewhere when the boycott started. Gray: Yeah, that was [at] Segrest and Sessum Ford Motors, I know it was a Ford place over there. Mr. Ron Segrest and Mr. Sessum was running it during that time. And we had sold [a black woman] a new car one day, and she came out [back] to finish getting service on it. While she was there, she wanted to use the bathroom, and I was told that Mrs. Sessum told her she couldn t use the bathroom, the white lady s bathroom [was] inside, [and] she had to go out there in the back and use the one in the shop [for black women and men]. And she went out there, and it was real dirty and nasty, and so she told him she didn t want to use that bathroom, she wanted to use that [clean] bathroom. And they got into words about not using that bathroom; told her, No, she couldn t do that anyway. I wasn t there; it s all hearsay. But anyway, I was going out to Tillman to pick up a car [that was] sold [from Segrest and Sessum Ford Motors]. I think that it quit running, and I was the one doing the wrecker [service] for Sessum Ford Company, and I had to go out there and pick up [the] car. When I got
21 back, Mr. Y.H. Ross, he was the mechanic then, and John Henry Jackson [fixed flats], they was telling me about the women had had a squabble about using the bathroom. And said the [black] woman left, and said she was going into town and going to have [people] to come boycott the Ford Company. So, I didn t think no more of it, and I said, Well, maybe she will, and maybe she won t. So they finished servicing her car and [parked] it out front. And the lady came back to get her car and [she] got her car. And while she was there they told me, They out there picketing already. And we looked out front there, and they had several people out there with signs picketing and walking, [they] boycotted the Ford place. And so, we knowed that, everything they d boycott they closed down; they closed down everything in town. So, Mr. Sessum said he know they re going to do the same thing [here]. That s why he had [to close down the business]. That evening about 4:30 [before we] supposed to get off about five. He called us in about 4:30, quarter to five, and he called us all to come in. He said, Well, you see them out there marching on us, so nobody s going to be boycotting me, so I ain t going to be able to pay y all because about 90 percent or more of our business is black business. I said, Well, yeah. So he said, I m going to pay y all this evening and let y all go on home so y all can find something else to do. So we said, OK. So we left and went on home. [We went] home, but when I went there by the shop where I already had going on. So other workers come down there to work with me. So we worked, and we couldn t keep up with [so much work]. Crosby: So you had a shop of your own? Gray: [Yes,] I already had a shop of my own prior to that, yeah, uh-huh. Crosby: And where was that, further up Highway 63? Gray: Up on Highway 18. [A portion omitted at interviewee s request.] Crosby: OK. Gray: Just before you get to the convenience store going east. And I lived right down the hill where I live now at the same time; so I was close to work. Crosby: You lived right down the hill. Gray: I was living in the same place I m living now, uh-huh. Crosby: And that s on Highway 18? Gray: Highway 18, uh-huh. So, we moved over there back in the [1960s], I guess, late [ 60s] when my mama was getting old and frail, and I had been working [and working]. I had a job, and we got a little Jim Walter House built down [in] there, and then from then on we
22 Crosby: Did you know who the people were who were picketing and boycotting the place? Gray: I don t recall [their names], but they d been marching down these streets here for months. Crosby: So you knew Gray: And I m sure [I did back then]. Crosby: that that was going on. Gray: Yeah, it was a boycott going on here in town [for months]. Crosby: Um-hm. Gray: Uh-huh. We knew that she had them to come over there, but I m not sure. I think it was Rudy Shields and Alfred Davis. I m not sure who all they were, but anyway I marched along with a bunch of them sometimes when I had a chance to. Crosby: So you knew basically who they were. Gray: Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh-huh. Crosby: So you say that was good for your business Gray: Yeah, that made it [flourish]. Yeah, when the boycott was on and we wasn t supposed to buy anything from the white merchants then. So we had to carry go to, back then we had to buy parts. I ran back and forth to Vicksburg after I got a full-time job and went straight out for myself, then, and I was hunting parts, going to Matthews and parts places [out of town] because we wasn t supposed to buy parts from the parts store was here because they was owned by whites. So we had [to do] the same thing. We, the blacks couldn t carry [our cars] there, [we were] scared to carry vehicles to the white shops. And oh, we mopped up. We had [lots of work]. We couldn t work on all the cars; had to turn them down. Crosby: Yeah. How long did that go on? Gray: Boycotting went on for years, but the people went to just [beating, burning homes and] threatening [to] kill [people who were going into the whites stores]. That kind of stuff to scare them out of [stores], quit marching so much, then kind of got back to where they went to going back to the white people s stores and the parts [stores] and everywhere else. So it lasted a couple of years pretty good with us, and then it went to slacking off, uh-huh.
23 Crosby: And then it just kind of petered out. Gray: Yeah, right, right, right. I guess they got back to their same old routine where they were going. Crosby: Were you aware of any changes that came about because of that boycott? Gray: Well, yeah, it was quite a few things [changed]. We got the first black police. We got blacks working in the stores and as clerks and whatever instead of just janitors and things like that it had been. It s a lot came out of it. And got black [people] in the places that [they] had never been before. Oh, [here] still got some places they ain t got [blacks working there]. It [turned] out pretty good. Crosby: So you think that employment was probably Gray: That was some of the main things I was told that was on the list they had given to the city that they wanted. Yeah. Crosby: What about voter registration? Was that something that you were aware of, or do you remember registering to vote for the first time? Gray: Yeah, I remember registering to vote. I went the first time [they were] talking about registering to vote. [When] I went to the courthouse to register, I m not sure; I think the lady s last name was Easeley or something like that. But anyway she told me [I couldn t] register. Some more [black people went to] register before I did, and they [could not] register. Several came after I did, and they [couldn t] register. Anyway, so I [didn t] know the federal people [who] came in here, and I don t know who sent for them or however, but anyway they came in, and we all got registered and started running for offices and [were] able to vote. The first time I ran for office, I ran for [supervisor]. Well, I was the first black [here] to ever say I was running for supervisor in the county, period. [I was one of the first blacks here to run for supervisor.] And after I said I would run, then [against] whites, a [black man named William] Matt Ross, said, Well, if you[ re going] to run, I ll run. So I was going to run in district two, and Matt was going to run in district one, which Matt did run in district one. I ran district two [for supervisor], also, but that s when I said, I m going to run for supervisor in district two. Then another fellow [that] was here, another friend of mine, everybody called him, L.C. Lipscomb, [also some] called him Ted Lipscomb. He said, I m going to run for supervisor. So there [were] two of us running for supervisor in the same district. So we went to a meeting out [there], the NAACP meeting one night. Both of us got up and made our presentation and said what we were going to do, we [were] going to try to get changes [made] and all, and then they had [an] election. They decided, the NAACP people decided who they was going to vote for that night. They had already told them why and what they wanted us to do and [to] let us know. So after we got there and we voted they voted; all of them voted. Everybody had to be [in] membership, and they voted that night, and I won the election over Teddy that night at the meeting. So they said they were going to