Tape Log Interviewer: Will Jones Tape#: 5.20.95-F.N.l Interviewee: Fred and Katie Nelson Mono: Stereo: X No. of Sides: 2 No. of Tapes: 1 Interview Date: May 20, 1995 Location: New Bern, NC 000 Introduction. 006 Tells about parents who lived in Cherry Point. His father, Walter Nelson, was born in Havelock in Cherry Point Grandfather, Sam Nelson, was born in Frery in 1860. His parents were slaves. He farmed and logged for a living. Mother, Penny Etta Smith, was raised in Havelock across from Hickman Hill. 026 Tells about "free born" people in Harlow 031 Father owned about 135-140 acres of land. Grandfather owned some also. 038 Fathers land was in Cherry Point. When the base was built in 1941, 37 families had to move. Some of those families were very large. They were paid 10 dollars per acre. That same land is worth $2000-$3000 per acre now. He bought a lot in New Bern. They weren't paid until 18 months after the move. They were given 30 days to move, and some people died before they got the money. 062 There were two white families that had to move. George Russell lost land. Harry Bell was a tenant on Lucky Lloyd Farm, he had to move also. Lucky Lloyd was owned by American Tobacco Company in Durham. 078 Grandfather bought land after the Civil War. He stayed on it until he died in 1929. He didn't talk much about slavery. 087 Mrs. Nelson's great grandfather, Turner McRae, used to talk about slavery. He had lived at Cherry Point until a man took him to Georgia to work. "The lord told him to go home." He j^cacsed <jc\kv 3c^c\ \W
escaped and walked all the way back to Havelock. He came to a white mans house. The woman there gave him a big meal and sent him along. 118 Mrs. Moore talks about white people who help black people today. 127 McRae was sold down to Georgia. 134 Mrs. Nelson talks about how much slaves would pray. Grandmother, Martha McRae, was born into slavery. She is worried that slavery will come back. 148 Mrs. Moore talks about prayer again. 160 Mrs. Nelson's great grandfather lived to be over 100. 173 Mr. Nelson's great grandparents on both sides had been slaves but they died before he was born. Grandmother was born in Harlow to free born people. He doesn't know how they got free, but some had white fathers. They said the masters had sent them to live in Harlow. His step mother said their fathers were white and they sent them down to Harlow. That is the story he was told. 195 Some of the masters allowed them to earn money and pay for their freedom. They would also be sent to Harlow. The Godette's and the Gebecton families were free. The Georges and the Fenners also. 209 The masters could have sex with the slave women without their permission. 218 Mrs. Nelson talks about the herbs that the slaves would use. They had herbs to cure anything. Yo Pone tea would give them energy. They made it out of leaves that grew on a small bush. It was good with sugar or molasses in it Now you have to buy tea in the store. 242 They both went to the Melvin School in Cherry Point There was a small community in Cherry Point A one room post office. A depot The train would come from Morehead to Goldsboro. One train in the morning and one in the evening. They closed the depot during the depression. Mr. Nelson would ride the train to New Bern once or twice a year to shop. In 1918 he made the first trip he can remember. He spent the day in New Bern. They lived about 4 1/2 miles from the station in Havelock, where the base is now. The station is still in Havelock, but they used to have one in Cherry Point
285 Later they closed the Cherry Point post office and built a brick one in Havelock. 291 The Melvin School was on the base. It was named for Melvina Robinson, Mr. Nelson's first teacher there. 300 There were two post offices where the base is now. They had the Melvin Post Office and the Cherry Point post office near the river. They closed them when they built the central post office in Havelock. After that the mail carrier would come onto the base twice a week. His grandfather carried mail. He was a contract mailman. They would bid to carry the mail for a portion of the year. They would put in a bid and the post office would give the job to the lowest bidder. Grandfather carried it for 8 years until he was disabled. Then son took over. 340 James Robinson would carry the mail to Harlowe. He lived in Cherry Point also. 348 Mr. Nelson went to the Melvin School from 1917 until 1930. He stopped going in 1919 because his aunt got married. He could go to school because he was the oldest grandson. Until his aunts moved out He would walk 2 miles through the woods to get there. They didn't have a fence law so the cattle would gofreein the woods. The "no fence law" came in 1921. 377 Mrs. Nelson went to the Melvin School also. She lived 3 miles from it. The number of students varied. There were about 35-40 people. Most families wanted their kids in school. They had all different ages in one room. 390 They had a wood stove and the children would keep it going. 395 They went to school for six months. Then they had to work on the farm. Some children couldn't go to school at all. They had to work on the farm. 400 Mrs. Nelson's family had a big farm with turkeys, ducks, chickens, hogs, and guineas. The only had to buy rice. They ground their own corn. They could buy rice in Havelock. If they didn't have money they could trade eggs for rice. 415 They used oil lamps for light so they went to bed early. 431 When theyfinishedschool they worked on the farm.
te-4 437 Mr. Nelson's first regular job was 1935 when he went to the Conservation Corps Camp in Havelock across from Hickman Hill. He drove a truck. They built roads and planted trees in Croatan Forest They also fought fires. They were on duty 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. When there were notfightingafirethey would build roads so they could get to the fires. He was paid $30 per month. That was a lot of money then, $1 a day. 479 Most of the young men at the camp came from Mississippi Some were from eastern NC, Wilmington. There were 200 black men. The foremen were white. There were separate white camps. The one in Havelock used to be a white camp but they moved them out They were segregated. There were only men there. They didn't have any similar program for women then. 506 He worked there in 33,35, and 37. There were several local enrollees. They were made assistant leaders because they were local. James George and George Whitehead were there. He had never met anyone from Mississippi before the camp. There were 12 local boys. Sam Gaskins, Mr. Cotton were also local. Marshall was another, from Bogue Sound. There weren't always 200 because some would leave. 555 They needed a pass to leave the camp. 567 The men would drink on the camp. Craven County was known as the liquor district Mr. Nelson made moonshine, started in 1919. So did his father. 582 Mrs. Moore asks if he knew Charley Mens. He was Mrs. Moore's grandfather who lived in Havelock. Mr. Nelson knew him, he came from Portugal and married a Godette from Harlow. [SideB] 000 Mrs. Moore remembers Mr. Cotton. He was a tall man and he lived to be 105. He liked to drink liquor. Mrs. Nelson says they all drank liquor then but they wouldn't get drunk like they do now. You could go out at night and nobody would bother you. 007 People would look out for each other. They would share what they had. They sat up with sick people. Now they put people in the Hospital and go about their business.
019 The closest doctor lived in Newport. He was a white man, and would come to their house. Manly Mason was his name. He delivered all their children in their house. Dr. Mason was a part time doctor at the CC camp. 033 The forest service advertised in the paper for 12 local men to help out at the CC camp. They needed people who knew the forest He went to the post office in New Bern and a lady there interviewed. All 12 local men were hired that way. The rest are dead now. James George and Mr. Nelson are the only ones still around. 061 Before he worked at the CC camp, he washed dishes at the Hotel Villa in Morehead. That was a vacation place for whites. They had an excursion train that would carry people from the western part of the state. That was his first public job. He was 21. 080 Talks about church. They had one service a month. Tom Gaskins was thefirstminister. Walter Green came after him. Little Witness was the name of the church in Cherry Point They would baptize people in the Creek. It was a Baptist church. 094 There was a cemetery next to the church. There were also private cemeteries in families yards. The Nelsons had a cemetery in the woods behind the house. His mother dies when he was 1 year old and she was buried there. They let that grow up and be couldn'tfindit now. He has a brother buried there also. He was born in 1917 and died when he was a few weeks old. 115 They moved to New Bern in 1941. He got a notice that he had 30 days to move. They moved some of the bodies to the gate on route 101. Later they moved them again. There used to be markers there. His first cousin, Charley Nelson, died a month before the government took it over. Mrs. Nelson's uncle dies that year also and he was moved there. But the markers are gone now. They moved them again. 140 The Nelson graveyard was not moved. They had stopped using it Mr. Nelson's father's first cousin was the last one buried there. His grandfather and grandmother was buried at Little Witness. They stopped using the back yard cemeteries around 1920 and started the one at Little Witness. They only moved Little Witness in 1941. Each family had there own cemetery.
170 There were white graveyards there also. There was a white school in 1918 or 1920, but they closed it There was only one family to go there and when the Russell children grew up they closed it. 180 He was laid off of the dish washing job during the depression. They got by then because they had farms. George Fuller owned the land that Mrs. Nelson's family lived on. Hetoldthem to keep whatever they grew. Their families were very close and he helped them out His family owns a music shop in New Bern now. They stayed there until the base came. The Fullers had a pleasure camp on the river near Hancock Creek. They lived in New Bern but would vacation in Cherry Point They built a house there a year before the base opened. It got torn down. 212 Mrs. Nelson talks about how they cleared the land and used the wood to build their house. Her house wastorndown also. 224 There was a saw mill in Cherry Point. Mr. Nelson's father was a "head block setter" there. Later he logged and bootlegged. He made whiskey and sold it There were several stills where the base is now. Even white people would come in and set up stills. They would hire people to work. His father owned his own still. He used sugar, meal, and wheat bran. Used Molasses sometimes but it made bad whiskey, called Rum. His father made it but he rarely hauled it People would come in and buy it there. 264 You could get arrested for bootlegging. Sometimes customers would rob them. A lot of them came from Newport. They would sell it to their friends. If they didn't have money they would bring hog's heads to trade. Especially in "Hoover's time." They would trade hog's heads, or sides of meat Sometimes com. During "Hoover's time," there wasn't much money. 300 Bootlegging was the quickest way to make a living. "A working man could makefivecents an hour, or a dollar a day. If you worked on the farm you made 50 cents a day for 10 hours of work. Bootlegging was a better way to make money. 319 The would put people on the chain gang for bootlegging. Like they do in Mississippi now. Mr. Nelson's uncle got caught They would stay for a year or 6 months. If Federal officers
caught them they got time in the Federal Penitentiary. County officers put them "out on the road," (on the chain gang). Some County Officers would accept bribes. A few Federal officers would also. - 345 When the jobs got scarce the local people depended on it You could tobacco for 10 cents a pound. That wasn't enough to pay the fertilizer bill. So people started bootlegging. Customers came from Raleigh, Goldsboro, and Kinston. Sometime people wouldn't come to buy. But you could wait or you could haul it yourself. 358 Some people were known for their good whiskey. Sometimes people would bum the mash and sail use it The whiskey would be bad. It would taste scorched. Mr. Nelson's father had a reputation for making good whiskey. He made it from 1919 till 1941. Mr. Nelson quit before he did and went to the CC. camp. 390 He left the CC. camp and went back to bootlegging for a while. Then he worked for the WPA. He taught he was going to get caught An officer had found his still and he thought the man mightfindhim at work. A federal officer told his father to stop. He had made some mash to feed his hogs and the officer destroyed it. He was lucky he never got caught 420 Mr. Nelson worked for the WPA and then worked on Cherry Point Cleared the land and then worked for the Civil Service for 20 years. First as a truck driver delivering fuel around the base. And then in the power plant 445 They got married in 1935. They had 10 children. They had known each other from school and Sunday school. Shetoldhim to stop bootlegging and he went to the CC camp. When he was discharged he went back to bootlegging until 1940. She said "the man's gonna catch you. And that morning I kept saying please don't go. And you know something. You know I'm telling the truth. As he was got ready to go the man was walking down side there going on down there just before he got there. And I said please don't go." Mr. Nelson stayed home long enough that the officer missed him. They had to catch them in the act 487 One of the Alcoholic Beverage Control officers was named Cox. They were all white. They would come down sometimes and stay over night One time his father passed an officer with a cart
full of whiskey and didn't get caught "He was blessed." He bootlegged from 1919 to 1941 without getting caught 514 He got a job workmg for the WPA in 1940. He worked on the roads for 18 months until the base opened. 521 When he got a notice to move he put in an application for a job at the employment office in New Bern. They had 30 daystomove. He had a wife and four children. They rented a house in New Bern. Mrs. Nelson cried for 6 months. The man charged him double rent He was renting for $1.25 a week and he charged them $2.50. Some people stayed near Cherry Point 569 Mrs. Nelson is Albert Toon's sister. 573 When they got the notice they didn't have money to build a new house. So he went to New Bern and rented a housefromlars Newmann a white man. [Tape 2] 000 He was working for the WPA at the airport in James City when they asked him to move. He quit the WPA and got a job with TA. Lovette, a contractor building Cherry Point They cleared the land and built gates for the base. Later they built barracks for the Marines. He left the base in 1974 when he retired. 025 When he first went to the base he cleared the land and hauled lumber. He didn't work on the runways. He was not a skilled worker. A few Marines lived intentsbut not many. They had M.P.&. But after the Barracks werefinished,more came. They were there training. He didn't know any of them personally. He would see them and meet them when he checked in and out of the base. They would check his pass. 044 They came into New Bern but they would be going to have fun when he was going home. He didn't go to those places. There were a lot of bootleg joints in New Bern. Lots of new ones came in after the base opened. It changed New Bern. There were more people from different places. It helped the bootleggers. 068 Talks about the War. He was working on the base when they bombed Pearl Harbor. Everybody was upset Mrs. Nelson was in New Bern and he came home andtoldher. They
started building the base in August, before they bombed. So they thought things were building up. But then it involved Europe. After Pearl Harbor they went from 8 hours a day five days a week to 10 hours seven days a week. They paid 40 cents an hour for unskilled work. That was the best job around. 101 Mrs. Nelson was working at home there. She had 4 children. She also did farm work in Havelock and Newport She would live with her mother and father in Havelock. Her children could stay with the grandparents while she went into Newport She would turn tobacco and pick beans. She did that while he was at Cherry Point She started the summer they had to move out with Lynn Hughes, a farmer in Newport 126 The war always seemed far away. They heard on the news about submarines in the Atlantic. They would hear about the soldiers looking out for subs. They found some that were on their way here. But they didn't do any damage. People talked about spies coming here. They had troops in Morehead in case they came. 141 Lots of people worked at Cherry Point The men did construction. The women came later to work in the mess halls and clean the houses of dependents. Women also worked in ONR (?) where they repaired airplanes. The women would clean parts and tools. Later in the War women were driving trucks for the Marines. Black women did that also. They started cleaning, but later on they learned some skilled jobs. That seemed strange. Some women were in the Marines. Later, they took black marines. Atfirst,only the Navy and the Army would take blacks. In the Navy, they could only cook But later they let them fight 174 The first black marines were 1943 or 1944. They came to Cherry Point After 1950, they integrated the marines. They became MP.s That was when Truman was the President During the war they had separate barracks. People thought that was good. The marines brought more money to town. 197 People got along pretty well with the marines. There were always trouble makers. They would gotorestaurants and bars. New Bern had a movie in Five Points and two black restaurants. Mrs. Nelson worked in one owned by Sarah Mumfort She cooked there during
the war. White soldiers would not come in there. But black soldiers would come out of the movie and into the restaurant Joe Down owned another. 232 Things picked up a bit. 237 Some soldiers stayed after the war. They married local women and stayed when they retired. They camefromall over. Some would get transferred and then come back after they retired. 251 People brought in more money. People got a chance to work and get higher pay. 271 Some people lost jobs after the war. 276 The Nelsons didn't meet many marines. Lots of black and white people moved there to work in the.civil Service. They would live outside Cherry Point Pamlico County, Greenville, New Bern. They met some of them. They were from Rocky Mount Greensboro. 306 New Bem got a little wild during the war. 318 Things have changed a lot People change. They didn't use dope. People used to drink a little whiskey, but now there talking about cocaine. Now they kill people for not paying for their dope. They were killing boys every week a little while ago. They aren't as bad now. In Jacksonville its very bad. 365 Racism is not as bad. You couldn't get a soda in New Bern. Couldn't use the rest room. You could get shot for going into some restaurants. You would go to a window and then eat in the street or in your car. Now you can go in and get your lunch. In the restroom they had a sign that said "White Only." They might have another that was, "all dirty and nasty." That would have a sign that said "Colored." You couldn't use the water fountain. 400 It was the same on the base. He worked in the power plant and they didn't have a sign there. But a man told him to use the fountain in the basement He was a janitor there. 415 Everything on the base was segregated during the 1940s. You had torideon the back of the bus unless it was a private owned bus. There were lots of black owned buses during the war. They would carry peoplefromnew Bern or Pamlico County to the base. Henry Singleton owned the New Bern bus. It carried people from New Bern to the Bus. Norris Dillehunt had one from Pleasant Hill to Cherry Point. Thomas Gines had anotherfromnew Bern.
472 Now you can eat out where you want. That is better. Truman was the one who got rid of the segregation. They still have some, but he got rid of some of them. 515 They wouldn't let private busses and trucks go onto the base. They had trucks for you to ride in the base, but blacks couldn't ride some of them. You would have to wait for the right truck. They would kick people out if they were on the wrong bus. One day a man threatened to pull him off the tmck on the way to the gate.