APPROVED MINUTES FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 2012 COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: VISITORS: 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER Heritage Room 1 8080 Mitchell Road Jeff Larsen, Chair; Keith Tschohl, Vice-Chair; Commissioners: Caryl Hansen, John Pratten and Joe Sutila Ben McQuillan and Jeff Nawrocki Kevin Gadel, Peter Humbert and Emily Richter Scott A. Kipp, Senior Planner Carol Pelzel, Recorder Jennifer Lewis, MAC Representative I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL Chair Larsen called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. He stated Nawrocki had a previous commitment and he would be absent from this meeting. Larsen welcomed the student representatives. The student representatives, Commission members and staff introduced themselves. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Tschohl asked that two items be added to the agenda under VI. B and C Discussion Items. Those items are Pilot Feedback on Noise Abatement Seminar held August 4 and Applicable Government Data Practices Act Chapter 13 with regard to Noise Complaint Data and Letters. MOTION: Pratten moved, seconded by Hansen, to approve the agenda as amended. The motion carried 5-0. III. IV. PUBLIC COMMENT APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY, MARCH 8, 2012 Tschohl asked that under VII. Educational Items A., the fourth sentence of the first paragraph be changed to read Nawrocki said that the Flt Plan.com and Jeppesen directories require FAA approval.
Page 2 MOTION: Motion was made by Hansen, seconded by Pratten, to approve the March 8, 2012 minutes as corrected. The motion carried 5-0. B. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY, MAY 10, 2012 MOTION: Motion was made by Sutila, seconded by Tschohl, to approve the July 12, 2012 minutes as published. The motion carried 3-0-1 with Pratten abstaining because of absence from that meeting. V. GUEST SPEAKERS VI. DISCUSSION ITEMS A. NOISE COMPLAINTS/STAGE 2 OPERATIONS REPORT JULY-AUGUST Jennifer Lewis, MAC Representative, presented the July and August reports for Flying Cloud aircraft operations that generate complaints. She reviewed the process for preparing the reports explaining for the month of July, there were a total of 244 complaints and of those 10 were related to helicopter operations. There were 148 nighttime complaints received and four were specifically for run-ups. In July, 2011, there were 165 complaints with the number of households complaining being the same as in 2012. There were no Stage 2 operations for the month of July. Larsen asked for the definition of structural disturbance. Lewis explained it is something in the home that vibrates. Larsen also asked if July was the first time there were fewer operations than in previous years. Lewis responded there are two different sources of data; flight tracking data and FAA data. They use the flight tracking data and there is a difference. Kipp pointed out the report for August shows the number of complainants but does not identify them on the map. Lewis apologized for the error and said she would collect that data and send it to the Commission. Lewis reported the Beechcraft King Air 200 has the most complaints. However, for August, the Cessna Citation ranked at the highest level. The King Air was not at the top for August because there were a high number of unknown complaints. Lewis explained MAC purchases their data from Flight Aware and there were more unknowns than in the past. Pilots can block their numbers on Flight Aware and they have been having more difficulty in identifying which aircraft is generating the complaints because of this. They are not sure this is something they can correct. When the end number is blocked they are unable to trace those flights. Lewis said they will continue to work on this but it is becoming noticeable in the data being gathered. Lewis explained for the month of August there were fewer complaints than in 2011 and fewer households complaining. The level of operation has been fairly consistent while nighttime operations and helicopter operations are down. Lewis said they will be providing to this Commission each month a rolling 12-month report of operations of Stage 2 aircraft.
Page 3 In June, 2012, there were two Stage 2 operations. Larsen explained the Final Agreement between the City and MAC requires a rolling 12-month report of Stage 2 operations since they are louder and are being phased out. Lewis said the Final Agreement requires for a 12- month period if there are 75 or more Stage 2 operations they will have to look at implementing mandatory restrictions. Sutila asked if any of the July daytime complaints correlated with the accident at Flying Cloud which occurred on July 12. Lewis said there were three calls that did correlate with that incident. Larsen explained there has been no official word as to what caused the accident but once that information is available the Commission will receive a copy of it. B. PILOT FEEDBACK ON NOISE ABATEMENT SEMINAR HELD AUGUST 4 Tschohl explained one obligation MAC has under the Final Agreement with the City is to provide training to local pilots on their noise abatement plan. Lewis presented an in-flight pilot training on August 4 and did a great job in providing an overview of the noise abatement program to 50 or 60 pilots. She also shared the noise complaints maps with the pilots that she presents to this Commission. Tschohl said he gave the Commission s point of view on what they are trying to do in reducing noise and in looking for changes in the way pilots operate. One pilot who lives near the airport questioned what was done in terms of real estate transactions to notify people there is an airport nearby open 24-hours a day. Tschohl explained the City does provide information as part of the initial disclosure but people lose that information or don t pass it along. He asked if there is anything the City can do to help educate people after the initial transaction. Tschohl questioned what other cities that have airports do or what MAC does to educate perspective residents in purchasing homes about the airport and its operations. Kipp explained besides the Development Agreement between the City and developer it is the responsibility of the owner to look into those situations. City staff has talked with people coming into the City asking about noise from the airport. They do provide them with examples or suggestions that might make it quieter for them. People focus on the house itself and don t realize there is noise. Kipp said he is not sure the City has any specific solutions for that. Hansen said the real estate agents should have the obligation to know about the noise and inform prospective buyers of that noise. Kipp said the developer signs an agreement stating airport noise does exist in the development and they need to disclose that there is an airport nearby. Lewis explained other facilities do have some different things that they will do. One airport puts signs up that shows the distance to the airport and the direction so people driving through would see that there is an airport nearby. One county initiative required that when an airport, dump site, etc. is within a certain distance from a home the purchaser is required to sign documentation stating they are aware of the facility. The seller is required to complete this information and provide it to the buyer. Lewis also indicated the benefit to having the internet is that it is a resourceful tool for perspective homeowners. One city had a
Page 4 link of things they felt were important to know about their community and included a link to the airport with a map showing the airport and distances from the airport. Lewis said in the past she has conducted specific real estate classes explaining information for realtors to discuss with the buyers as to what to say about the airport and noise. Tschohl asked with regard to realtor education, if this has been done in Minneapolis or if Lewis has a sense of how realtors understand the noise areas around the airports in the Twin Cities. Lewis said she feels it would be worthwhile to have meetings with realtors. MAC has always made itself available for people looking for homes and she said she usually recommends Flight Tracker. People are able to see where planes are flying. Larsen asked Lewis if she thought MAC would entertain the idea of having a real estate class or type of school. Tschohl suggested they look at providing realtors with an informational brochure about the airport. Lewis responded on MAC s website there is a page for realtors and home buyers. She said this would be an ideal place to provide additional resources for home owners. Lewis said MAC has had discussions about whose responsibility this is. Larsen said this has come up before and he is not sure what they can do about it. He suggested they discuss real estate classes at their January meeting. C. DATA PRACTICES ACT CHAPTER 13 Tschohl explained under Minnesota law any information collected by certain governmental agencies is defined as public information unless there is something else in the statute that says otherwise. He asked what MAC is relying on to keep the information private of the people calling in complaints of violators of abatement procedures. Lewis responded MAC has an agreement with the FAA for flight tracking data and with that agreement they are not allowed to use that information for enforcement. Complaint information is also held private for similar reasons. Data MAC is using to correlate for that complaint is protected data. D. MAC DEVELOPMENT PARCELS Larsen explained a meeting with the City s Planning Commission to review MAC s development parcels had been scheduled for September 10. Unfortunately, they did not have a quorum so they did not address the topics scheduled for that evening. The City Planner did present some information to the general public about what they were doing. The City Attorney talked about MAC and Eden Prairie s relationship in terms of whose ordinance and plans had control over these parcels. This item was delayed for two weeks. Kipp reported City staff did prepare a Memorandum of Understanding. Early on MAC talked about trying to obtain additional money to maintain Flying Cloud and they talked about who will control zoning, etc. of these parcels. Larsen explained the work will be done through the Planning Commission because of the zoning involved with these parcels and it is not an issue for this Commission s consideration. However, this will be on MAC land in Eden Prairie and it will have an impact on the surrounding area. Kipp displayed the parcels MAC and the City feel are viable for development. He also reviewed MAC s proposal for development of the various parcels.
Page 5 Larsen presented a brief review of the Joint Airport Zoning Board (JAZB). This Commission should be aware of their actions even though the Commission has no control over the Board. Larsen reported the next Planning Commission meeting is scheduled for September 24 to discuss development of MAC s parcels. An update of the Planning Commissions action will be presented at the January meeting. E. CITY WEBSITE PRESENTATION/REVIEW EVALUATION REPORT Pratten reported the program used to extract information from the City s website was developed by a former Commissioner and required the information to be exported. Pratten said he has talked with City IT staff and with the City s new website they have the ability to take the information and create a collection of data from the website. He indicated he has been trying to meet with City staff to tell them what information they want compiled. Pratten said he will schedule a meeting with City staff and the student representatives as soon as possible. Pratten said once the above project is completed their next step would be to enhance the Flying Cloud portion of the website including images of planes. Their intent would be to make it more dramatic and fun to look at. Larsen said the July airport tour did not occur because of the plane crash at Flying Cloud on the day their tour was scheduled. He said he would like to get the student representatives out to the airport. He asked Commissioners and student representative to e-mail available dates for the tour prior to the November meeting. F. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC VII. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS A. AIRPORT EXPO Tschohl presented a review of the Air Expo explaining there were a number of ground displays including local pilots and air craft from the commemorative air force. There was a good mix of vintage and aerobatic aircraft on the ground. The event was very well attended and the City was represented by the Fire, Police Departments and the Airport Watch Program. Tschohl presented an update on the Airport Watch Program explaining the Program was started in March with the first training sessions occurring in early May. They have approximately 20 members credentialed and trained into the program. B. FOLLOW-UP ON YEAR-END REPORT
Page 6 VIII. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS A. JULY 12 AIRCRAFT INCIDENT Larsen distributed to the Commission an article from the Eden Prairie News regarding the plane crash at Flying Cloud Airport on July 12. IX. NEW BUSINESS X. OTHER BUSINESS A. VARIOUS FYI ITEMS 1. Approved Minutes of May 10, 2012 2. November 8, 2012 Tour at MSP Airport Larsen explained the next meeting of the Commission scheduled for November 8 will be a tour at MSP Airport. Larsen asked Commission members to think about what they want this Commission to do in 2013. In January the Commission will compile this information. Every two years they review security at Flying Cloud and 2013 would be the year for that review. XII. ADJOURNMENT Motion: Motion was made by Tschohl, seconded by Sutila, to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at 9:20 p.m.